JDJ American Bulldog Preservation Board: for all that posted

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for all that posted

Posted by rahjr (RobbyH) on 1/4/2008, 4:09 pm, in reply to "Mark"
74.241.183.185

i agree and like most of what everybody posted. bryan i dont know how many pure johnson dogs are out there now but i have personaly seen thousands. what you say is true about inbreeding. people being what they are..as in so many differant opinion,s that most people wont do much of it or even realize they are allready doing it,to a certan degree. most people that will do inbreeding know or will figure out to bring in fresh blood sometimes. of coarse the new blood they bring in is just old blood that someone has taken another way for generations. of coarse people(some people dont like this or want to think of it) need to cull dogs that are not breeding dogs...what you think as breeders(dogs)may or will be differant than someone slse,s. i dont think someone that has never bred anything should do intense inbreeding,most pups will be fine. but they need to be checked real good and culled. there are dogs that should not be in a newbies hands but are great dogs but with intense inbreeding there will be more of them. i dont think mark or anybody else is saying for every body to inbreed. but inbreeding is like not inbreeding in that do the research not just peds and what they look like,but the personalty. when you inbreed what is strong gets stronger and what is weak gets weaker,some traits that you cant see will show up after inbreeding. i have a real nice female that is coming in soon that i may breed to her 1/2 brother or i might breed her to her full brother or i might go to some blood that started the same but went a differant direction for sevral generations...just dont know. again i think everyone that posted had good comments and were thinking of the same goal...a better johnson american bulldog!!! this is the kinds of post,s i like,we can all learn from post,s like this
--Previous Message--
: ...thanks for not pulling my password!!
: I don't think you got exactly what i meant this is a very interesting but hard
: subject to discuss in English, but i guess my English is better than your Swedish!?
: All i'm trying to say is with inbreeding theres risk involved and a possible
: disaster overdone, and i don't talk about a single breeder using this method now and
: then, but if ALL are doing it ALL the time over a long period of time.
: Even if one perfect stud is over used you could get in trouble when the second
: generation is born, theres an example of that about a bull called Matador who
: carried a ressesive defect for one testicle, first gen. no problems and the
: offspring were as healthy as there father but with the generation, inbreeding half
: brother to half sister, the ressesive gene now doubled popped up resulting in
: infertility.
: If a closed population (like the JDJ bulldog) is to stay healthy for an unlimited
: period of time the active population needs to be 500 or else they rapidly start to
: lose there genetic diversity and you need to add fresh blood.
: It is impossible to weed out all defect genes, the average living being carries
: about 5-10 genetic defects programmed into there dna.When i mentioned foundation dog
: i in my post was generally speaking of FCI approved breeds.
: I believe there problems comes from show breeding for a sertain look using
: inbreeding to get it.
: I would not recommend it to start with, it is in my opinion for the experienced
: breeder, i don't do it my self.
: Would you recommend this breeding practice to a new breeder having his first or
: second litter??
:
: I hope i don't sound like an ass, remember this is not my nr. one language!!
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Weed out the defects from gene pool and I don't think it was a small gene pool with
: "12 to 14" different dogs(thats not a small gene pool) thats for sure! The
: people who cull and take the risk I believe will see results and make the
: difference, The real test is "what are you producing?" Everyone already
: knows what we get when we do noting! Personally I have seen Great results going
: tighter then set your tight stock into something looser. Paul C. has a full brother
: to sister b###h of mone she will be bred to Bo watch what that breeding produces!
: Now that b###h is as muscled up and near perfect conformation as one could ask for.
: When I need an out cross it will be a very tightly bred Old Southern White who has
: great health ,temperment ,structure but tight also. Remember we are not going from
: one foundation dog but two dozen different dogs.
: Where do you get "the" foundation dog? Not looking for anyone to agree by
: the way , I usually keep my thoughts on breeding to myself as I will not argue and
: enjoy just doing my own thing. I jumped in because I happen to like Bryan and his
: desire to make good positive changes ,can we agree the breed is a mess? what would
: you do to change that?
: You or anyone does not have to agree I won't pull your password.LOL! Everyone sees
: things differently. Take Care Bud: Mark @ Big Sky
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: --Previous Message--
: I don't agree with Mark, the gene pool was small, yes inbred dogs breeds
: consistently
: but they also double up on defect genes, and a population under 300 will start to
: lose genes resulting in depression, early signs are lower fertility, weaker immune
: system, smaller dogs and shorter lifespan.
: Most breeds recognized by FCI is a result of inbreeding but they are not the
: healthiest dogs around, they all have ONE major defect from the foundation dog that
: breeders then have problem avoiding.If conformation consistency is your main
: objective keep inbreeding everyone, personally i don't think these dogs need more
: uniform and over all health is my main concern.
: Don,t get me wrong i don,t want other breeds/lines crossed into our Johnsons but i
: think a widening of GOOD dogs used wouldn't hurt.
:
: PS there should say LOWER not HIGHER in my previous post .
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