Posted by Howard the Duck on 2/15/2012, 7:34 am, in reply to "From SOTSOG onwards the Beatles rip-off were valid"
115.135.161.86
they were "poseurs"
and BTW SOTSOG is my second most disliked Oasis, "Be Here Now" is the one I loathe the most
just nothing at all interesting about both of them, and BHN sounds like an AOR version of "Definitely Maybe" (which was good for its time, I suppose)
--Previous Message--
: I agree. Lot of heathen Chemistry sounds like
: a hypothetical scenario if The Beatles were
: form in the 70's as a glam rock band.
:
: Standing On the Shoulders of giant onwards
: they were pretty much embracing the beatles
: rip off tag without any shame.
:
: There was this story where one of the
: producer listen to one of the songs from
: SOTSOG (I think it was go let it out) and he
: commented that the bass guitar playing (That
: album Noel pretty much played all the
: instruments) sounds like Paul McCartney in a
: way that was implying that noel was ripping
: him off.
:
: Most pretentious musos would probably be
: offended or embarrass when someone points
: out the derivative of their work.
:
: Noel just took it as a compliment and says
: "well thanks you" After all
: Beatles were a great band and if you sound
: like a great band then that's a good thing
: right?
:
: I have to say though, even though I wouldn't
: rate oasis as any more than a 1 (maybe 2
: star, I'm not too sure yet) band. I find
: Noel Gallagher to be one of the most
: funniest and interesting personality in rock
: music. He's probably the only musician where
: I'm actually entertained by their interviews
: and I find him hilarious. He's got this
: unpretentious charming arrogance that just
: funny. He reminds me of Ricky Gervais and
: Karl Pilkington
:
: Although people are put off by Noel's
: arrogance. I remember a recent interview
: where it was put into perspective. He
: commented with absolute sincerity that he
: believes rock stars has a
: "responsibility" (I seriously
: couldn't believe Noel using the word
: responsiblity in an interview but it was
: true) to create an image that this is the
: best job in the world. He believes that rock
: music is a dying cultural art and that he
: has to sell the rock and roll dream and
: lifestyle and image to kids to keep this
: genre alive. He said when rock star complain
: about how difficult it is being a rock
: musician and how much hard work it is with
: handling the pressure, the kids would just
: think it's too hard. That the rock and roll
: dream is now the pop star dream (with the
: whole X-factor etc)
:
: He said he's quite sure a lot of hard work
: and struggle for Bowie during his famous
: days but from Noel's perspective he just saw
: someone living the dream that inspired him.
:
: This actually puts a new spin and
: perspective for all the arrogant things Noel
: and Liam done. It's all an act but an act
: perform with absolute sincerity to keep the
: rock and roll dream/lifestyle/tradition
: alive.
:
: Maybe it was misguided or even
: counterproductive but it is hilarious all
: the same.
: --Previous Message--
: sounds like mirror images of some songs from
: "Revolver"
:
: --Previous Message--
: I always thought the whole Oasis ripping off
: the beatles to be very exaggerated. however
: every album after definitely maybe became
: slightly more beatle-ish culminating with
: Dig out your soul which really sounds like
: they were listening to sgt. peppers and
: psychedelic beatles a lot.
:
: It's pretty listenable but derivative album
: .
: --Previous Message--
: I liked (although not love) both of those
: albums especially heathen Chemistry (Born in
: a different cloud is my favourite song from
: those two albums).
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: "Don't Believe the Truth" and
: "Heathen Chemistry"?
:
: they're not so dominated by Noel, and are
: more "band" efforts and are
: actually better for it
:
: --Previous Message--
: And I don't like their music, either,
: although
: the two aren't related.
:
: Rattle and Hum is easily one of the most
: pretentious albums I've ever heard in my
: life. There's no U2 album that doesn't have
: an over-inflated sense of self-importance,
: but that album is really the only one of
: theirs that's killed by it, in my opinion
: (some of their other albums are killed by
: musical problems, IMHO, but that's neither
: here nor there).
:
: --Previous Message--
: So are you saying that Bono actually set an
: 'acceptable' donating percentage or amount
: from millionaires.
:
: Or did he proposed some sort of super rich
: tax system where a certain percentage goes
: to foreign aid.
:
: I probably need for specifics there.
:
: As with the holy quote there
:
: I think a bit of context about bono and U2's
: music. He is one of thsoe people who
: believes that when the music "touches
: " your soul, they interpret it as a
: religious experience. I met people who
: similarly felt that way.
:
: He admits that he was inspired by The Who
: and Pete Townsend belief that music can
: transcend our lives (the whole message of
: lifehouse projects) and he believes songs
: like "Oh My Love" by John Lennon
: to be a "spiritual and religious
: hymn" even though he knows that Lennon
: is atheist.
:
: His music philosophy is that he wants his
: music to replicate the whole music as a
: transcendental force.
:
: Pretentious, yes but then again he is hardly
: the first artist who believes that.
:
: Nevertheless, if there's one thing I won't
: argue with is that Bono is a bit arrogant
: and thinks highly of his own work
:
: There are quotes where he believes that Boy
: is easily the top 10 debut album of all
: time. The quote that you shown clearly
: states that he believed that he succeeded
: with his goal.
:
: Then again, isn't this just an artist who
: set out a goal and vision in their music and
: believes that they succeeded in fulfilling
: their own vision?
:
: I won't deny that Bono seldomly even tries
: to disguise his self confidence with false
: modesty. Then again I find false modesty
: kind of annoying anyway. At least his honest
: about his own confidence but I don't see his
: arrogance to be any more than a lot of rock
: stars (eg. the likes of Oasis).
:
: I also kind of agree with his assessment.
: Boy is a top 10 debut album of all time and
: some of U2 works does have a transcendental
: effect on me. He is arrogant but somewhat
: justified for me.
:
: In any case, Bono can be self critical at
: time, he believes his lyric sin the 80's to
: be subpar (I agree) and he thinks Ra is
: embarrass by Rattle and hum due to it's
: pretentiousness (if Bono believes that album
: is too pretentious then it must be a
: contender for the most pretentious album
: ever)
:
:
:
:
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: i'll break it down into as simple of terms
: as
: i possibly can: it's not that he's
: encouraging people to donate to charities,
: it's that he criticizes other rich people
: who DO donate, and tries to dictate how much
: of their money is "enough"
:
: there are plenty of other quotes (outside of
: his lyrics) that epitomize this point, not
: to mention other random quotes that
: epitomize his holier-than-thou, pious
: nature. in fact, i googled the quote i
: used, and it actually brought up a page off
: maddox's website that contained another gem
: of a quote of bono's:
:
: "I don't know why, but we always had
: this belief that there was something sacred
: about our music, that it was almost
: holy."
:
: *crickets*
:
: --Previous Message--
: He has stopped concert and encourages people
: to do more for charity and some people find
: that annoying but I never thought that it
: was a case of moral superiority
:
: I'll just say I never get the impression
: that Bono is saying he is morally superior
: to everyone else and end it like that .
:
: I'm just wondering about the relevant of
: that quote because it seems to be taken out
: of context as that was criticising churches
: for exploiting poor people for money and
: then using the money inappropriately and
: hence ripping off the public.
:
: --Previous Message--
: And then I'm done with this particular
: conversation, because it's clearly not going
: anywhere.
:
: "THE GOD I KNOW ISN'T SHORT ON CASH,
: MISTER!"
:
: When you, gently and respectfully, say that
: people should give to charity while you
: yourself are giving to charity, you're a
: good person.
:
: When you interrupt a rock concert to berate
: your paying audience for not giving as much
: to charity as they should, you're a
: pretentious dick, no matter how much you're
: giving to charity.
:
: It's not that Bono is charitable. It's that
: he thinks being charitable makes him morally
: superior to everybody else. Yes, I'm going
: to find him a pretentious blowhard when
: confronted with that kind of attitude.
: Nothing you say is going to change my mind,
: and I doubt anything I say will change
: yours, either.
:
: So, again, I'm done with this conversation.
:
: --Previous Message--
: So do you have a problem with charity when
: they make an ad showing the poverty in the
: third world and trying to make the point
: that people should give more because people
: in first world countries have a lot more.
: They are asking people to give more money to
: charity and I believe most charity do used
: guilt to try to persuade people to give them
: money.
:
: Are they hypocrites as well? They may not
: be millionaires but they aren't struggling
: as well. A lot of people running charities
: are paid for their efforts as well and
: aren't volunteers.
:
: Bono is saying the basic principle that
: people should give more. You're the person
: who adds "sacrificing his lifestyle to
: the point of inconvenience" to the
: equation. The fact is no one is asking
: anyone to sacrifice their lifestyle to
: inconvenience. Just asking people to give
: more to people who are less well off.
:
: Essentially Bono is just doing the role of
: the celebrity spokeman representing charity
: asking people to donate money. However in
: this case it's just on a general principle
: rather than to a specific charity
:
: Really the whole "denying others what
: they demand for themselves," is a case
: of us as a society demand the minimum
: standard of living. We demand that we get
: access to a minimum standard of clean food,
: water, shelter and health care and we
: wouldn't accept people living without it in
: first world country. tHerefore we shouldn't
: deny that to citizens of other countries in
: the world
:
: It's not the case of demanding the rich give
: up their luxuries for other people and some
: sort of classist warfare.
: --Previous Message--
: he made a song that chastised the rich for
: basically being rich and not giving enough,
: even if they do give to charity. who is he
: to decree who should give what to charity
: when it's a donation of their own free will
: . but bono criticizes them saying they
: could give more, and the lyrics i quoted
: were a perfect example of that. how does
: that not illustrate him being a hypocrite if
: he's piously dictating what wealthy people
: should give if they're "denying others
: what they demand for themselves," when
: he has his own private jet, a mansion, a
: personal chauffeur, and more money in his
: bank acct than most people know what to do
: with? i don't see him sacrificing his
: lifestyle to the point of inconvenience like
: he's chastising other millionaires for in
: order to ensure that lower economic classes
: aren't "denied what [the rich] demand
: for themselves," which is what makes
: him a pious, hypocritical cunt. i don't
: possibly know how to make that any clearer.
:
: --Previous Message--
: He does give money to charity. In fact he
: does
: a lot more work than just giving money to
: charity
: And he tries to encourage other people to do
: the same.
:
: That's not hypocrisy at all. It would be
: hypocrisy if he does nothing and then preach
: other people to give money.
:
: The fact that he is a millionaire living in
: luxury doesn't change a thing as he is not
: advocating people lose their luxury
: lifestyle, he's just promoting people
: donating money to charity.
:
: I really fail to see the problem with the
: lyrics you are quoting. Basically just means
: that we shouldn't deny other the things we
: take for granted.
:
: I'll just state that I'm not really
: defending Bono here because I'm some how a
: big fan of him personally. I'm quite sure a
: lot of musician that I like are complete
: prats in real life (in fact my favourite
: songwriter Thom Yorke seems to have a chip
: on his shoulder by the way he treats his
: fans).
:
: I'm only defending Bono because I have a pet
: peeve against people being ultra-cynical and
: spend their time critique people who do
: charity work.
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: i advocate giving to charity, if possible.
: i
: don't hold it against a rich person by
: saying "YOU SHOULD GIVE MORE!"
: it's not my place to dictate what someone
: should or shouldn't give on their own free
: will, as you're interpreting. the thing is,
: bono does think it's his place, and that's
: why he's a pretentious, holier-than-thou,
: hypocritical twat.
:
: hell, just listen to 'crumbs from your
: table' and tell me otherwise.
:
: "Would you deny for others
: What you demand for yourself?"
:
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