Posted by Trung
on 2/21/2012, 9:41 pm, in reply to "Thinking about what I just typed...."
110.175.228.247
I like songs to be emotionally resonant as well.
However, in my mind the most emotionally resonant songs are dynamic. I sort of think of resonance as the artist being sincere and expressing their emotions through their song. What better way to do that then having the songwriter baring their soul in the emotional climax of the song and having their emotional outburst as the culmination of everything that occurs previously in the song
I may well like dynamics for the sake of it (I won't deny that a dynamic song appeals to me irrespective of context) but the real reason why I love it is I believe that it's one of the most effective and emotionally powerful way in expressing the emotion of the songwriter. To me it's one of the greatest tool in achieving emotional resonance.
Something like "Mother" by John Lennon where he starts screaming at the end as a culmination of his previous lamentation about the absence of a parental figure in his life is an example.
Now I know some people don't like it because it makes the song sounds bombastic and some people may find it "overbearing" but that's the type of thing I enjoy.
In terms of accessible song that made me appriciate the band more. I admit that the reason how I got into Pet Sounds is because of the recent Smile boxset. The songs were less monotonous and more dynamic and was a much more diverse album and I pretty much "got" the album first listen. After listening to the Smile boxset. I went back and listen to Pet Sounds and because now I finally used to the Beach Boys sound. I ended up really enjoying Pet Sounds. I probably rate Pet Sounds higher than Smile now (mainly because I'm not entirely convince of the short experimental songs like The Elements) but I probably wouldn't have loved Pet Sounds if it wasn't for Smile.
--Previous Message--
: I think a better way to phrase one of my
: points about Tom Waits would be, his more
: emotionally driven songs pulled me in to be
: excited about listening to his albums enough
: to reveal the qualities of his other, more
: crazy and less emotionally driven songs.
: So, for Mule Variations , for example, the
: emotional pull of songs like "Hold
: On", "Come On Up To The
: House", "House Where Nobody
: Lives", "Georgia Lee", and so
: forth kept me coming back to the album until
: I realized the great qualities of "Big
: In Japan", "Filipino Box Spring
: Hog", "Eyeball Kid", etc.,
: etc.
:
: The fact that I like so much of his music
: for so many different reasons, and that he
: can do such crazy things and still be
: completely convincing to me, are a good
: chunk of the reasons why I love him so much.
:
: --Previous Message--
: I think it basically just comes down to what
: it is that pulls you into a song or an
: album. For you, clearly dynamics plays a
: very large part. Me, I'm perhaps a bit more
: emotionally driven. Obviously, if songs are
: immediately accessible and catchy (and good)
: then that makes it easier for me to get
: excited about it, but usually what makes me
: want to relisten to an album again is the
: emotional power I get from it, whether it's
: excitement, anger, sadness, whatever.
:
: Example: Nick Drake. I doubt anybody really
: loves Nick Drake on first or second listen,
: but when I first got his albums, I thought
: they were pleasant, but unmemorable folk
: songs initially. However, I kept going back
: to listen to them again because I could just
: tell there was something about his music
: that could really get under your skin. A
: lyrical bit, a particular guitar phrase (the
: intro to "Fruit Tree" haunted me
: for a long time before I really
: "got" Nick Drake, for example), a
: vocal phrase, whatever it may have been, I
: could just tell there was something that
: would get under my skin, so I relistened to
: him many times and he eventually did dig
: into my heart.
:
: As for Tom Waits, he didn't even need to
: try. I got Closing Time first, and I
: straight up cried the first time I heard
: "Martha". In fact, I'd wager to
: say that Tom Waits has made me cry more than
: any other artist in my collection, and the
: fact that he can be so emotionally resonant
: while simultaneously do such unconventional,
: but well-written and interesting music is a
: large part of my admiration for him. That's
: not my only reasons for admiring him,
: though - obviously, stuff like "Hang
: On, St. Christopher" or "In The
: Colosseum" is never going to make me
: cry, but it does hit me hard emotionally in
: other ways.
:
: Counter-example: Talking Heads. I like the
: Talking Heads well enough, but regardless of
: how interesting my brain finds much of their
: music, I hardly ever listen to them, because
: they don't reach my heart at all. It's
: nothing I hold against them - they weren't
: aiming at the heart, obviously - but it's a
: good example of what gets my attention in
: music.
:
: So, obviously, in the battle of brain versus
: heart, my heart clearly dominates my tastes,
: and I make no apologies for that. Of
: course, this isn't to say that I only like
: things which make me cry or which take me
: straight to heaven, but that should go
: without saying.
:
: --Previous Message--
: I have a feeling that the next time you do
: one
: of those mocking "predict what
: everybody's answers will be" about a
: band.
:
: You'll do something about "this album
: lacks dynamics" from me because it's
: becoming a common thing for me to complain
: about an album.
:
: In any case, the album doesn't have to be
: really dynamic for me to love the album
: (although it probably needs a few songs that
: is dynamic for it to be a 15 (or F/10)
: standard album though). However an album
: with 2-3 dynamic songs makes the album way
: more accessible for me.
:
: When you listen to an album, you usually
: don't like the album on first listen. Really
: it's pretty hard to motivate yourself to
: re-listen the album unless there are at
: least a few songs that grabbed your
: attention immediately. Generally those songs
: are the one for me to be either really
: really catchy and melodic or really dynamic
: or both.
:
: The atmosphere and the sounds/tones from the
: vocalist and the instruments and some of the
: intricate arrangement grows on you later on.
:
: This gives me incentive to relisten the
: album with excitement and more of an open
: mind and it has far more chance for me to
: grow on you when you know that there are a
: few songs that you already like right away.
:
: However, if there isn't any attention
: grabbing song after the first listen, then
: it's a bit of a chore to relisten the album.
:
: That's what the position I'm in with Tom
: Waits right now. Maybe eventually I may buy
: into his sounds/voice/atmosphere if I listen
: to his albums enough but there isn't any
: songs that grab my attention that I
: absolutely love right now (there are few
: songs that I like though, I'm pretty fond of
: virginia avenue and ice cream man from the
: debut, semi suite, the two songs that John
: mention from Rain dogs and Time, Big in
: Japan is pretty good from Mule) but the
: prospect of relistening to the album feels
: me of the feeling of doing a chore rather
: than excitement of what I would discover
: from this listen. I think the lack of
: dynamics plays a part there.
:
: It took me 3-4 years for me to accept pet
: Sounds as a great album because of it's
: monotony. It may take even longer (if at
: all) with Tom Waits.
:
: I actually followed your suggestion of
: listening to it in chronological order
:
: --Previous Message--
: It's not his voice which is the major
: complaint that most people have with Tom
: Waits. Although I admit that I was shocked
: the first time I heard it, I pretty much
: accept it now. However, his voice is neither
: a positive or a negative for me at this
: stage.
:
: The thing that struck me about Tom waits
: that applicable from his early piano based
: singer-songwriter days to the whole
: avantgarde garage blues/jazz rock period (by
: the way I've listen to all his albums from
: Closing Time to Frank Wild's year + Alice
: and Mule variation so I'm not completely
: uninformed here about his work. ALthough
: admittingly I struggled to listen to their
: albums more than 2-3 listen) is how
: monotonous it is.
:
: He gets into a groove or sets a mood and the
: song rarely stray from that and I know I
: like to bring out this point a lot but I
: found his work to be undynamic.
:
: A lot of people partner up Tom Waits and
: Nick Cave and there's a tendency for people
: to like one to also like the others due to
: both of them takes a dark angle (or in Tom
: Waits a crazy angle) to the blues and other
: various rootsy genre (Tom Waits even sang in
: the Nick Cave cover of the dylan song Death
: is not the end). From my point, nick Cave is
: the greatest singer-songwriter of all time
: whilst I find Tom waits very hard to listen
: to (I wouldn't say I dislike him though
: because I rate Closing Time and Rain Dogs to
: be either a strong 9 or weak 10 out of15
: albums).
:
: The main key difference is that Nick Cave is
: more dynamic and has an epic feel to his
: work than Waits. For example a song like
: "say goodbye to the little girl
: tree" where it just a repetitive guitar
: rift, but slowly he starts adding
: instruments such as the piano, the bass. As
: the song builds up the kick drum comes in,
: some atmospheric guitar joins in and when
: Nick Cave starts singing "down down
: down" rocking out ending, it's
: absolutely powerful. Even song like 'Wanted
: man' where it's a pretty repetitive chord
: progression but you have Nick Cave singing
: in a creepy understated way in the beginning
: and then builds up to a thunderstorm crazy
: rant later on in the song. There's an epic
: and dramatic feel to his songs that just not
: present in any Tom Waits song that I can
: remember.
:
: To me listen to some of the more difficult
: Tom Waits song is like listening to a Nick
: Cave rant but without the build up.
:
: To me to really like Tom Waits. You really
: got to dig his general sound and really dig
: his voice because the song relies on that
: more than anything else. Kind of similar to
: how people like Bob Dylan. Then again Bob
: dylan song are more dynamic and more melodic
: (although more repetitive as well) then Tom
: Waits.
:
: Unless someone points to the more dynamic
: Tom waits song or the music to click and me
: suddenly love the general sound of his song
: , I find it unlikely for me to really love
: his work.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Well, since I've heard him, anyways. I've
: loved all of his albums on the first couple
: of listens.
:
: --Previous Message--
: "I would definitely say that if you've
: bought Rain Dogs, failed to click with it in
: the first couple of listens and feel ready
: to toss Tom Waits aside, you need to listen
: to this a couple of times before you give up
: on Tom."
:
: Awesome that fits my description, i'll give
: that a shot
:
: *Listen to Franks Wild Years*
:
: Alright I give up. i hear even less hooks
: and melodies and the songs in that album
: seem more repetitive and monotonous than
: Rain dogs and I still don't quite get that
: album either.
:
: this entire tom waits period is a bit of a
: write off for me (Unless there's another
: newbie friendly album in Wait later on his
: career). I kind of dig a few songs here and
: there but listening to the whole album is
: just a difficult and tiring proposition. My
: emotions of listening to his career starts
: of from boredom to mindbogglingly
: unlistenable ear-splitting music.
:
: I'm looking forward to Big star reviews
: whenever the time it takes to reach that.
:
: --Previous Message--
: You'll notice that none of the albums has
: the
: "best album" designation. That is
: correct.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
: