Posted by Nolol on 2/21/2012, 9:58 pm, in reply to "I kind of prioritised my heart over my brain, it seems like things that I define "heart" differently"
70.188.22.113
Well, of course the best use of dynamics is for the emotional effect. "Mother" is a great example, and that song is a real tearjerker precisely for the reasons you mentioned. But I wouldn't want every song to be like that. The "buildup to an emotional climax" is something that's very exhausting, and so in my mind, it only works if used sparingly.
Basically, I certainly appreciate dynamics and dynamic song structure, but how dynamic a song is isn't something I consider a positive or a negative. Or, perhaps I should say, for some songs, a dynamic buildup may be something I find really cool and I'll certainly appreciate it, but I won't count it against a song if it's not like that.
--Previous Message--
: I like songs to be emotionally resonant as
: well.
:
: However, in my mind the most emotionally
: resonant songs are dynamic. I sort of think
: of resonance as the artist being sincere and
: expressing their emotions through their
: song. What better way to do that then having
: the songwriter baring their soul in the
: emotional climax of the song and having
: their emotional outburst as the culmination
: of everything that occurs previously in the
: song
:
: I may well like dynamics for the sake of it
: (I won't deny that a dynamic song appeals to
: me irrespective of context) but the real
: reason why I love it is I believe that it's
: one of the most effective and emotionally
: powerful way in expressing the emotion of
: the songwriter. To me it's one of the
: greatest tool in achieving emotional
: resonance.
:
: Something like "Mother" by John
: Lennon where he starts screaming at the end
: as a culmination of his previous lamentation
: about the absence of a parental figure in
: his life is an example.
:
: Now I know some people don't like it because
: it makes the song sounds bombastic and some
: people may find it "overbearing"
: but that's the type of thing I enjoy.
:
: In terms of accessible song that made me
: appriciate the band more. I admit that the
: reason how I got into Pet Sounds is because
: of the recent Smile boxset. The songs were
: less monotonous and more dynamic and was a
: much more diverse album and I pretty much
: "got" the album first listen.
: After listening to the Smile boxset. I went
: back and listen to Pet Sounds and because
: now I finally used to the Beach Boys sound.
: I ended up really enjoying Pet Sounds. I
: probably rate Pet Sounds higher than Smile
: now (mainly because I'm not entirely
: convince of the short experimental songs
: like The Elements) but I probably wouldn't
: have loved Pet Sounds if it wasn't for
: Smile.
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: I think a better way to phrase one of my
: points about Tom Waits would be, his more
: emotionally driven songs pulled me in to be
: excited about listening to his albums enough
: to reveal the qualities of his other, more
: crazy and less emotionally driven songs.
: So, for Mule Variations , for example, the
: emotional pull of songs like "Hold
: On", "Come On Up To The
: House", "House Where Nobody
: Lives", "Georgia Lee", and so
: forth kept me coming back to the album until
: I realized the great qualities of "Big
: In Japan", "Filipino Box Spring
: Hog", "Eyeball Kid", etc.,
: etc.
:
: The fact that I like so much of his music
: for so many different reasons, and that he
: can do such crazy things and still be
: completely convincing to me, are a good
: chunk of the reasons why I love him so much.
:
: --Previous Message--
: I think it basically just comes down to what
: it is that pulls you into a song or an
: album. For you, clearly dynamics plays a
: very large part. Me, I'm perhaps a bit more
: emotionally driven. Obviously, if songs are
: immediately accessible and catchy (and good)
: then that makes it easier for me to get
: excited about it, but usually what makes me
: want to relisten to an album again is the
: emotional power I get from it, whether it's
: excitement, anger, sadness, whatever.
:
: Example: Nick Drake. I doubt anybody really
: loves Nick Drake on first or second listen,
: but when I first got his albums, I thought
: they were pleasant, but unmemorable folk
: songs initially. However, I kept going back
: to listen to them again because I could just
: tell there was something about his music
: that could really get under your skin. A
: lyrical bit, a particular guitar phrase (the
: intro to "Fruit Tree" haunted me
: for a long time before I really
: "got" Nick Drake, for example), a
: vocal phrase, whatever it may have been, I
: could just tell there was something that
: would get under my skin, so I relistened to
: him many times and he eventually did dig
: into my heart.
:
: As for Tom Waits, he didn't even need to
: try. I got Closing Time first, and I
: straight up cried the first time I heard
: "Martha". In fact, I'd wager to
: say that Tom Waits has made me cry more than
: any other artist in my collection, and the
: fact that he can be so emotionally resonant
: while simultaneously do such unconventional,
: but well-written and interesting music is a
: large part of my admiration for him. That's
: not my only reasons for admiring him,
: though - obviously, stuff like "Hang
: On, St. Christopher" or "In The
: Colosseum" is never going to make me
: cry, but it does hit me hard emotionally in
: other ways.
:
: Counter-example: Talking Heads. I like the
: Talking Heads well enough, but regardless of
: how interesting my brain finds much of their
: music, I hardly ever listen to them, because
: they don't reach my heart at all. It's
: nothing I hold against them - they weren't
: aiming at the heart, obviously - but it's a
: good example of what gets my attention in
: music.
:
: So, obviously, in the battle of brain versus
: heart, my heart clearly dominates my tastes,
: and I make no apologies for that. Of
: course, this isn't to say that I only like
: things which make me cry or which take me
: straight to heaven, but that should go
: without saying.
:
: --Previous Message--
: I have a feeling that the next time you do
: one
: of those mocking "predict what
: everybody's answers will be" about a
: band.
:
: You'll do something about "this album
: lacks dynamics" from me because it's
: becoming a common thing for me to complain
: about an album.
:
: In any case, the album doesn't have to be
: really dynamic for me to love the album
: (although it probably needs a few songs that
: is dynamic for it to be a 15 (or F/10)
: standard album though). However an album
: with 2-3 dynamic songs makes the album way
: more accessible for me.
:
: When you listen to an album, you usually
: don't like the album on first listen. Really
: it's pretty hard to motivate yourself to
: re-listen the album unless there are at
: least a few songs that grabbed your
: attention immediately. Generally those songs
: are the one for me to be either really
: really catchy and melodic or really dynamic
: or both.
:
: The atmosphere and the sounds/tones from the
: vocalist and the instruments and some of the
: intricate arrangement grows on you later on.
:
: This gives me incentive to relisten the
: album with excitement and more of an open
: mind and it has far more chance for me to
: grow on you when you know that there are a
: few songs that you already like right away.
:
: However, if there isn't any attention
: grabbing song after the first listen, then
: it's a bit of a chore to relisten the album.
:
: That's what the position I'm in with Tom
: Waits right now. Maybe eventually I may buy
: into his sounds/voice/atmosphere if I listen
: to his albums enough but there isn't any
: songs that grab my attention that I
: absolutely love right now (there are few
: songs that I like though, I'm pretty fond of
: virginia avenue and ice cream man from the
: debut, semi suite, the two songs that John
: mention from Rain dogs and Time, Big in
: Japan is pretty good from Mule) but the
: prospect of relistening to the album feels
: me of the feeling of doing a chore rather
: than excitement of what I would discover
: from this listen. I think the lack of
: dynamics plays a part there.
:
: It took me 3-4 years for me to accept pet
: Sounds as a great album because of it's
: monotony. It may take even longer (if at
: all) with Tom Waits.
:
: I actually followed your suggestion of
: listening to it in chronological order
:
: --Previous Message--
: It's not his voice which is the major
: complaint that most people have with Tom
: Waits. Although I admit that I was shocked
: the first time I heard it, I pretty much
: accept it now. However, his voice is neither
: a positive or a negative for me at this
: stage.
:
: The thing that struck me about Tom waits
: that applicable from his early piano based
: singer-songwriter days to the whole
: avantgarde garage blues/jazz rock period (by
: the way I've listen to all his albums from
: Closing Time to Frank Wild's year + Alice
: and Mule variation so I'm not completely
: uninformed here about his work. ALthough
: admittingly I struggled to listen to their
: albums more than 2-3 listen) is how
: monotonous it is.
:
: He gets into a groove or sets a mood and the
: song rarely stray from that and I know I
: like to bring out this point a lot but I
: found his work to be undynamic.
:
: A lot of people partner up Tom Waits and
: Nick Cave and there's a tendency for people
: to like one to also like the others due to
: both of them takes a dark angle (or in Tom
: Waits a crazy angle) to the blues and other
: various rootsy genre (Tom Waits even sang in
: the Nick Cave cover of the dylan song Death
: is not the end). From my point, nick Cave is
: the greatest singer-songwriter of all time
: whilst I find Tom waits very hard to listen
: to (I wouldn't say I dislike him though
: because I rate Closing Time and Rain Dogs to
: be either a strong 9 or weak 10 out of15
: albums).
:
: The main key difference is that Nick Cave is
: more dynamic and has an epic feel to his
: work than Waits. For example a song like
: "say goodbye to the little girl
: tree" where it just a repetitive guitar
: rift, but slowly he starts adding
: instruments such as the piano, the bass. As
: the song builds up the kick drum comes in,
: some atmospheric guitar joins in and when
: Nick Cave starts singing "down down
: down" rocking out ending, it's
: absolutely powerful. Even song like 'Wanted
: man' where it's a pretty repetitive chord
: progression but you have Nick Cave singing
: in a creepy understated way in the beginning
: and then builds up to a thunderstorm crazy
: rant later on in the song. There's an epic
: and dramatic feel to his songs that just not
: present in any Tom Waits song that I can
: remember.
:
: To me listen to some of the more difficult
: Tom Waits song is like listening to a Nick
: Cave rant but without the build up.
:
: To me to really like Tom Waits. You really
: got to dig his general sound and really dig
: his voice because the song relies on that
: more than anything else. Kind of similar to
: how people like Bob Dylan. Then again Bob
: dylan song are more dynamic and more melodic
: (although more repetitive as well) then Tom
: Waits.
:
: Unless someone points to the more dynamic
: Tom waits song or the music to click and me
: suddenly love the general sound of his song
: , I find it unlikely for me to really love
: his work.
:
: --Previous Message--
: Well, since I've heard him, anyways. I've
: loved all of his albums on the first couple
: of listens.
:
: --Previous Message--
: "I would definitely say that if you've
: bought Rain Dogs, failed to click with it in
: the first couple of listens and feel ready
: to toss Tom Waits aside, you need to listen
: to this a couple of times before you give up
: on Tom."
:
: Awesome that fits my description, i'll give
: that a shot
:
: *Listen to Franks Wild Years*
:
: Alright I give up. i hear even less hooks
: and melodies and the songs in that album
: seem more repetitive and monotonous than
: Rain dogs and I still don't quite get that
: album either.
:
: this entire tom waits period is a bit of a
: write off for me (Unless there's another
: newbie friendly album in Wait later on his
: career). I kind of dig a few songs here and
: there but listening to the whole album is
: just a difficult and tiring proposition. My
: emotions of listening to his career starts
: of from boredom to mindbogglingly
: unlistenable ear-splitting music.
:
: I'm looking forward to Big star reviews
: whenever the time it takes to reach that.
:
: --Previous Message--
: You'll notice that none of the albums has
: the
: "best album" designation. That is
: correct.
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
