Posted by Trung
on 7/20/2012, 10:04 pm, in reply to "Re: I like 90's rock because it is a throwback of 60's/70's rock"
110.175.228.247
In all honesty Originality is simply combining influence.
Whilst people like George may claim that combining let say beat poetry with rock music or combining classical music with rock music to be original but combining two different 60's rock group to be derivative. in my mind they are both original and combining different rock groups from different sub-genres of rock to be original enough.
For example Radiohead maybe a synthesis of Roxy Music and U2 (the pink floyd comparison is exagerrated in mind). THe fact of the matter is U2 and Roxy are pretty different band and that combination is unique and that combination makes Radiohead have a unique sound. Radiohead can do what U2 and Roxy Music can't do due to that combination. Roxy music don't have their anthemic emotional voice and melodies due to their glam roots and U2 don't have the art rock song structures and the same sonic depth as Radiohead do.
IMo radiohead are an original band (although obviously they aren't groundbreaking as some of their fans like to think they are) because their combination of their influence is unique.
You can say that for the other bands I mention as well. Although I do admit that some of the bands I mention are inferior to their influence but I do think some are superior to their influence as well (IMO I rate PJ Harvey higher than Patti Smith and I think most bands influence by the velvet underground to be superior to them as well)
--Previous Message--
: To me, this seems like a strange argument to
: show the good side of 90's rock, because,
: IMO, all the artists you mention are good,
: but inferior to their influences (and,
: obviously, less original).
:
: To me, this only says that rock had already
: pretty much stagnated by then, if all the
: best artists could do was combine elements
: of older bands.
: Of course, there was legitimately new things
: going, like Portishead.
:
: Anyway, the 90's were a decade with a lot of
: great music, I don't think anyone is
: disputing that.
:
: --Previous Message--
: I grew up listening to 90's rock but all of
: the bands I listen to were direct successors
: of great 60's/70's and sometimes 80's group.
:
: Radiohead - a mixture of U2/Roxy Music/Pink
: Floyd/Can
: Blur - The modern day kinks with a bit of
: Syd Barrett-ish influence. Later on
: incorporation with velvet underground-ish
: garage rock, punk and art rock to their
: sound.
: Oasis - The Beatles mix with 70's glam rock
: and a bit of Who-ish arena rock
: Bjork - A successor of Kate Bush. Although
: more avantgarde
: PJ Harvey - A successor of Patti Smith with
: a bit of Nick CAve influence. Taking John
: Lennon's plastic ono band album and making
: it even more dramatic
: Jeff Buckley - Follows the old fashion
: confessional singer-songwriter siprit with
: an operatic vocals
: Flaming Lips - Mixture of 60's psychedelic
: rock mix with punk music. Then incorporation
: of beach boy lush pop and prog rock
: influence in their later albums
: Pavement - Strong Velvet underground and REM
: influence
: Nirvana- Beatle-ish pop mix with punk
: attitude and a bit a Sabbath-ish guitar
: sounds and a confessional singer-songwriter
: mentality.
:
: To me that's what 90's rock mean to me. I
: have no idea what represents 90's rock to
: John McFerrin. It seems to me that 90's rock
: should have been a pretty good decade for
: anyone with retro bent.
:
: Now discovering John and George website
: helped me traced the influence of all the
: bands I grew up listening to (and probalby
: made me realise that they aren't as original
: that I thought it was). Nevertheless, even
: though nowadays where the time period of
: 1965-1975 is my favourite decade in rock
: music, I don't think I can really say that
: 90's music is a particularly bad decade in
: rock.
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: I'm in my 20s and I loathe 90s rock, that's
: why I read John and George's site to begin
: with. :) I mean, I'm fairly sure that John
: only likes 90s rock in the context of some
: of it continuing the positive qualities that
: earlier music had, not because he likes the
: aesthetic of it per se.
:
: --Previous Message--
: I don't think that John being pro-ween could
: lose readers. It's the case that John
: admitting not caring about the development
: of rock music in the 90's and that Ween
: ignoring the 90's as a positive thing
: (although John openly admitted that in other
: reviews so most people who read that site
: would already know that about him).
:
: Really the 20-30 demographics would care
: alot about 90's rock because that's what
: they grow up listening to.
:
: I have to say I am one of those crowd who
: grew up listening to 90's rock music and
: enjoying it as well. I guess I have to give
: kudos to John who was able to articulate
: quite accurately the type of person who
: wouldn't like Ween.
:
: Similarly I'm one of those people who listen
: to Ween and just get a WTF reaction to it
: and absolutely confusion that people like
: this stuff (barring Mollusk, even then
: though I still get WTF reaction to stuff
: like Blarney stone and dick in the wind).
:
: Their diversity is admirable it's just that
: my taste isn't ecletic enough and they cover
: a lot of genre of music that I really don't
: care about. I mean, John mention that You
: ####ed up capture the spirit of Hardcore
: punk. Which sort of cements why I never
: listen to any hardcore punk album ever.
: Really I'm not that impress when they decide
: to be eclectic by doing sea-shanty songs or
: being ecletic by singing in helium voice or
: doing circus-like instrumental songs mix
: with bored spoken word about how this is a
: hiv song.
:
: Really I have no problem with humour in
: music, the thing is there's a difference
: between writing a song that is funny and
: writing a joke song. I much prefer humorous
: songs to be just songs with funny lyrics in
: there (like some of Dylan, Sparks, 10cc
: etc). Ween are like a caricature (I know
: that's the point but I don't like that
: point) and just seem to silly for me to
: care.
:
: It doesn't help that I'm one of those people
: who doesn't bother to read lyrics until long
: after I decide it's a good song. Write good
: music that is self-sufficient by itself and
: only then I pay attention to the lyrics. I
: really couldn't care less if Ween were
: genius satirist if their music doesn't
: captivate me.
:
: I don't particularly think their songs are
: particularly well written either. I don't
: find them emotional resonant at all (one of
: the things I don't get about George reviews
: was how he believes Ween were able to
: emulate emotional resonance). There isn't
: enough "epic", anthemic songs with
: an emotional climax to really be resonant
: (buckingham green is a key exception though
: and It is one of the alltime classic rock
: songs and one of the best songs of the
: 90's).
:
: Ween knows how to create catchy melodies
: (when they try but they don't always try)
: but the pop masters (beatles, kinks, rolling
: stones, Radiohead hell even Dylan) know how
: to create a sense of occasions to their
: melodies and when a chorus comes up, treat
: it as a special occasion, for one thing have
: the chorus distinctive to the verse and have
: appropriate build up to it (pre-chorus or
: even just an instrumental linkage). Normally
: have the chorus be the most melodic, the
: highest pitch, the most loudly sung, the
: most instrumentation part of the song and
: have instrumental build up to it. Ween
: chorus could be catchy but in general
: there's lack of sense of occasion to it and
: there really isn't anything distinguishing
: it from their verse (it's the same issue I
: have with Wilco). To me that's how i
: separate pop master to people who are just
: merely competent.
:
: Example. Baby Witch does not sound like
: "Idiot Wind" at all. For one thing
: Dylan knew how to create chorus that is
: distinctive and sets up chorus like it's a
: special occasion (usually he has a
: pre-chorus and instrumental build up and he
: belts out the chorus to contrast with the
: verse). Idiot wind has anthemic qualities,
: Baby Witch although catchy does not and
: mostly just meanders on with the verse and
: chorus basically interchangeable even if
: admittingly it is catchy (I do like the song
: but I can't say it's anything spectacular).
:
:
: --Previous Message--
: Surely that view isn't prevalent amongst the
: male überwhite American middle-class nerdy
: 20-30 something's that I'd imagine dominate
: John's readership?
:
: --Previous Message--
: Because of the common anti-Ween view you
: yourself described in the intro.
:
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