Mastiff ShowSight: Re: Questionable actions of an AKC judge this weekend

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Re: Questionable actions of an AKC judge this weekend

Posted by John on 9/28/2009, 9:38 pm, in reply to "Questionable actions of an AKC judge this weekend"

I rarely respond to posts on this site, but this one caught my eye. As per the AKC book entitled Rules Applying to Dog Shows, "When a dog has been disqualified under the standard
for its breed, or when a male has been disqualified
as not having two normal testicles normally located
in the scrotum on three separate occasions, by
three different judges, such dog may not again be
shown." You can find this information on the AKC website. It is not in the individual breed standard, but it is in the general rule book that governs dog shows (pages 45-46).

Based on the AKC's information, it would seem to me that Mr. Bivin, a well respected and very experienced AKC judge, is correct in his interpretation of the rule. By your own description, the dog you showed does not have 2 normal testes if one testicle is significantly smaller than the other. And the rule specifically says 2 normal testicles.

Though I am not a judge, my interpretation of the rule is similar to his. I am not sure why you would feel humiliated or beside yourself? You did nothing wrong, and neither did Mr. Bivin. It seems Mr. Bivin noticed something others had missed, and it is his job to completely and correctly evaluate/examine breeding stock. It is never a good feeling when fault is found with a dog you are handling, but from your description it sounds like Mr. Bivin was polite and investigated every possibility to insure his opinion of the problem was correct. And it seems his opinion was validated by the "extra" testicular exams that came outside the ring. Personally, I would chalk this situation up to experience and move on. Alternatively, a complete GU exam by a veterinarian coupled with a call to the AKC for clarification of the rule may make you and the owners feel better. The vet may be able to offer an explanation for the abnormal finding.
John

--Previous Message--
: I am very concerned about the decision that
: was made by a very recognizable AKC judge
: this weekend and thought I would address it
: before taking any actions against him
: through AKC or the kennel club..
:
: Mr Ed Bivin was the judge for sunday at the
: Van Nuys dogshow this weekend and I was
: showing a nice apricot male for a friend of
: a friend for the very first time.
:
: As Ed was examining the dog as
: "thorough" as he did, he noticed
: that one of this males testicles was a bit
: smaller than the other.. Everyone who was
: watching noticed and was wondering what was
: going on as I did. He told me VERY clearly
: that he wasnt sure if there was both
: testicles descended or if one was just
: slightly smaller that the other.
:
:
: Ed then told me " Ok lets do this, he
: may be abit nervous so Im gonna have you do
: a diagonal down and back and then align him
: up just as you are when you come back and I
: will re-evaluate him again.
:
:
: So I do a down and back and he decides to go
: over this dog's testicles again. Ed Bivin
: then says heres the problem. Im feeling
: that both testicles are descended but one is
: not the same size as the other and thats a
: problem.
:
: These are exactly Ed's words at this point
: in time. "IN THE STANDARD IT CLEARLY
: STATES THAT BOTH TESTICLES SHOULD BE
: DESCENDED AND THAT THEY BOTH SHOULD BE OF
: EQUAL SIZE OR MATCHING". BECAUSE OF
: THE DIFFERENT SIZES OF HIS TESTICLES, IM
: GOING TO HAVE TO DISQUALIFY YOU. IM SORRY
: BUT IT SAYS THIS CLEARLY IN THE
: STANDARD".
:
:
:
: Aside from being completely confused and
: humiliated in front of all spectators and
: the owners of this dog, I was beside
: myself.
:
:
: Outside of the ring I had one breeder and 2
: other people outside the ring including the
: owners feel the dogs testicles and look at a
: distance. It was clearly noticed that both
: testicles were descended but one WAS
: noticeably smaller.
:
:
: I am going to re read and re read and re
: read the standard but Im at least 90% sure
: that this was inappropriate actions for the
: judge to take..
:
:
: What should I do?
:
:
: How can a dog be disqualified for having one
: smaller testicle?
:
: I can understand Mr Bivin's concern for
: knowing that the purpose for showing is to
: showcase breeding stock and it can be a
: problem if testicles are not similar but I
: really dont think it says this anywhere in
: the standard, history or description in our
: breed..
:
: Again I will re read our standard and If I
: have to eat my words I certainly will, but I
: think I should have been just excused, not
: "DISQUALIFIED".
:
:
: Please give me advice on what I should do???
:
: I was told several times that the male I
: showed was nice and to tell the owners to
: show under a different judge next time.
:
:
:
:
: Cariston
:
: