Mastiff ShowSight: Re: Questionable actions of an AKC judge this weekend

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Re: Questionable actions of an AKC judge this weekend

Posted by cariston on 9/29/2009, 2:43 am, in reply to "Re: Questionable actions of an AKC judge this weekend"

Well said John.. I have understanding of the AKC rules now and why Mr Bivin made the decision that he did.

I understand we are show casing breeding stock, and although I dont think the owners of this particular male I was showing plans to breed him to my knowlege, they were just as confused about it as I was..

I still get intimidated with some of the bigger fish out there in the ring today. There were alot of spectators and big breeders there this past sunday. Thats why I got so humiliated.

Cariston
--Previous Message--
: I rarely respond to posts on this site, but
: this one caught my eye. As per the AKC book
: entitled Rules Applying to Dog Shows,
: "When a dog has been disqualified under
: the standard
: for its breed, or when a male has been
: disqualified
: as not having two normal testicles normally
: located
: in the scrotum on three separate occasions,
: by
: three different judges, such dog may not
: again be
: shown." You can find this information
: on the AKC website. It is not in the
: individual breed standard, but it is in the
: general rule book that governs dog shows
: (pages 45-46).
:
: Based on the AKC's information, it would
: seem to me that Mr. Bivin, a well respected
: and very experienced AKC judge, is correct
: in his interpretation of the rule. By your
: own description, the dog you showed does not
: have 2 normal testes if one testicle is
: significantly smaller than the other. And
: the rule specifically says 2 normal
: testicles.
:
: Though I am not a judge, my interpretation
: of the rule is similar to his. I am not sure
: why you would feel humiliated or beside
: yourself? You did nothing wrong, and neither
: did Mr. Bivin. It seems Mr. Bivin noticed
: something others had missed, and it is his
: job to completely and correctly
: evaluate/examine breeding stock. It is never
: a good feeling when fault is found with a
: dog you are handling, but from your
: description it sounds like Mr. Bivin was
: polite and investigated every possibility to
: insure his opinion of the problem was
: correct. And it seems his opinion was
: validated by the "extra"
: testicular exams that came outside the ring.
: Personally, I would chalk this situation up
: to experience and move on. Alternatively, a
: complete GU exam by a veterinarian coupled
: with a call to the AKC for clarification of
: the rule may make you and the owners feel
: better. The vet may be able to offer an
: explanation for the abnormal finding.
: John
:
: --Previous Message--
: I am very concerned about the decision that
: was made by a very recognizable AKC judge
: this weekend and thought I would address it
: before taking any actions against him
: through AKC or the kennel club..
:
: Mr Ed Bivin was the judge for sunday at the
: Van Nuys dogshow this weekend and I was
: showing a nice apricot male for a friend of
: a friend for the very first time.
:
: As Ed was examining the dog as
: "thorough" as he did, he noticed
: that one of this males testicles was a bit
: smaller than the other.. Everyone who was
: watching noticed and was wondering what was
: going on as I did. He told me VERY clearly
: that he wasnt sure if there was both
: testicles descended or if one was just
: slightly smaller that the other.
:
:
: Ed then told me " Ok lets do this, he
: may be abit nervous so Im gonna have you do
: a diagonal down and back and then align him
: up just as you are when you come back and I
: will re-evaluate him again.
:
:
: So I do a down and back and he decides to go
: over this dog's testicles again. Ed Bivin
: then says heres the problem. Im feeling
: that both testicles are descended but one is
: not the same size as the other and thats a
: problem.
:
: These are exactly Ed's words at this point
: in time. "IN THE STANDARD IT CLEARLY
: STATES THAT BOTH TESTICLES SHOULD BE
: DESCENDED AND THAT THEY BOTH SHOULD BE OF
: EQUAL SIZE OR MATCHING". BECAUSE OF
: THE DIFFERENT SIZES OF HIS TESTICLES, IM
: GOING TO HAVE TO DISQUALIFY YOU. IM SORRY
: BUT IT SAYS THIS CLEARLY IN THE
: STANDARD".
:
:
:
: Aside from being completely confused and
: humiliated in front of all spectators and
: the owners of this dog, I was beside
: myself.
:
:
: Outside of the ring I had one breeder and 2
: other people outside the ring including the
: owners feel the dogs testicles and look at a
: distance. It was clearly noticed that both
: testicles were descended but one WAS
: noticeably smaller.
:
:
: I am going to re read and re read and re
: read the standard but Im at least 90% sure
: that this was inappropriate actions for the
: judge to take..
:
:
: What should I do?
:
:
: How can a dog be disqualified for having one
: smaller testicle?
:
: I can understand Mr Bivin's concern for
: knowing that the purpose for showing is to
: showcase breeding stock and it can be a
: problem if testicles are not similar but I
: really dont think it says this anywhere in
: the standard, history or description in our
: breed..
:
: Again I will re read our standard and If I
: have to eat my words I certainly will, but I
: think I should have been just excused, not
: "DISQUALIFIED".
:
:
: Please give me advice on what I should do???
:
: I was told several times that the male I
: showed was nice and to tell the owners to
: show under a different judge next time.
:
:
:
:
: Cariston
:
:
:
: