Posted by Harry Coin on 4/3/2008, 9:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Discretion and denial cannot overcome demographics." In the RCC for the first time you start to hear about priests being 'ontologically different' around the 'Vatican what have yous' in the 1900's, and other 'infalliblity' doctrines attempting to perfect and consolidate power. Back to the good old Cesar being the god-man. 'Christ's vicar on Earth'. Bosh.
Message modified by user Harry Coin 4/4/2008, 1:53 pm
Hi Leo
You are correct in your 'point 1', to a point. What happens, to varying degrees depending on the group, is the ability for some or many to offer somewhere between pre-ignored advice to actual votes regarding a group pre-determined to be 'acceptable'. The problem is that there are zero people previously married in that group -- for the first time in our church history, indeed human history. Almost zero working age widowers since safe Cesarian operations and the medicine necessary to make that possible were accepted widely.
2. A good step, if true. First I heard of it.
3. Sure, all the ones you don't hear about. Wife dies in childbirth, they decide to dedicate the rest of their lives to the faith and actually forego, actually give up, actually sacrifice marriage, then they get the job of 'bishop of nowhereville'. Remember, only the victors write the histories. The work-a-day bishops in all the regional town centers -- THOSE were the men the locals respected, THOSE were the men who knew the actual measure of the burdens and joys of family and struggle, THOSE were the work-a-day clergy that kept the church going where in counts -- among the people. Not students of family life, veterans of it.
It also freed the monastics who actually want to be monastics and not fundraising tourist centers with roadside shoppe all ready to one-up the parish priest with oddball sexual advice in 'confession'.
You can put all those lofty words with 100x the force when they come from a monastic GRANDPA than you could from someone who can only speak to those who never had to do what it takes to support the life of someone small pulling on the rasso asking for juice.
Moreover, when there were plenty of qualified people for the job of local bishop, those who really had more personal issues didn't get the job out of some idea of 'the church is for the rules, and not the other way around'.
When you get to the end of balancing all the issues, I think one thing must be quite evident: When we hear the lenten Gospel passages about God's vinyard and the pruning shears and so forth--- look at our numbers. Anyone who can say with a straight face that we are on the 'keeper' side of the vine with the present situation must be counting the angels standing in the churches in all the empty spots that had people in it previously.
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