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"We have concluded that when the principle of phyletism (i.e. ecclesiastical nationalism) is juxtaposed with the teaching of the Gospel and the constant practice of the Church, it is not only foreign to it, but also completely opposed, to it. We decree the following in the Holy Spirit: 1. We reject and condemn racial division, that is, racial differences, national quarrels and disagreements in the Church of Christ, as being contrary to the teaching of the Gospel and the holy canons of our blessed fathers, on which the holy Church is established and which adorn human society and lead it to Divine piety. 2. In accordance with the holy canons, we proclaim that those who accept such division according to races and who dare to base on it hitherto unheard-of racial assemblies are foreign to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and are real schismatics." Constantinople...1872
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    Re: Pre-Conciliar Consultation

    Posted by Al on 6/9/2009, 2:35 am, in reply to "Re: Pre-Conciliar Consultation "

    David-

    In all actuality, we are on the same sheet of music as to what we would like to see as the end result. What I have been commenting about is the near absurdity of seeing +Jonah as some sort of "White Knight" who will intimidate the foreign patriarchs into bowing to his "leadership" and motivate their faithful to rush to his care.

    Sadly, the facts on the ground do not make him an accepted leader of a significant portion of the faithful, and the portion he does lead does not have a track record of significant accomplishment in building a vibrant American Church.

    Rather than jumping up and proclaiming a silver bullet has arrived, we need to determine why the Orthodox in America have not seriously made progress toward unity, and blaming it upon foreign bishops is pure horse puckey. We have accepted this mess for nearly a century, and have actually intensified jurisdictionalism in the years since OCA autocephaly, not reduced it. And, from my viewpoint, many proponents of unity are simply suggesting a new form of "ethnic" dominance in what they propose. Even +Jonah suggested this in his comments of "returning to our Russian roots" as the way forward in NA.

    I have no argument with "hoping" for something. But hope alone will not address the needs that are being clearly manifested by the existance of multiple jurisdictions on the continent. Simply lableling jurisdictionalism as wrong also does not address these needs. Claiming "we were here first" does not address these needs. Saying "what you have built needs to go away" does not address these needs.

    If the Serbian parishioner in Issaquah, WA is at home in his parish, and feels his spriritual needs fulfilled by the leadership of the Patriarch of Serbia, what do we tell him that would make him want to change things? When he reads a statement such as Dean's joyful proclamation that +Jonah told his Patriarch to "pound sand", is he motivated to consider leading his parish into the OCA?

    Until we decide to objectively understand what is going on in North American, and do so in a non-judgmental fashion, it just ain't gonna change.


    Al
    Paros Island, Greece

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