Posted by Dean Calvert BTW - at the end of the day, we may have to recognize that there are two groups of Orthodox on this continent; one which is happy ministering to it's own ethnic group; the other which really wants to evangelize this continent. We may have to accept the fact that they will remain separate...which is just fine. The first will go the way of the dinosaurs, second will live on. The point is, the first group cannot be allowed to prevent the second group from coming together.
on 6/9/2009, 10:21 am, in reply to "Re: Pre-Conciliar Consultation "
Message modified by user dcalvert 6/9/2009, 12:05 pm
At the risk of being the turd in the koombayah punchbowl...I think you are full of prunes.
I know we both agree on the end result - no question about that. But I think it's time to move "all the way" to an Orthodox Church, not to settle any longer. This "settling" is what is killing us.
Al, you make the point that for a century things haven't changed. You also make the point that, in your opinion, the majority of the Orthodox in this country elect to be under a foreign patriarch. I would argue with that, but it's a red herring.
The Orthodox tradition is locally elected bishops, sitting in synod. Until we get there...we're really just playing around here. You may say, "But Dean, People are happy with the current situation." I'd argue that the disintegration of the membership numbers across most jurisdictions, except for the Antiochians, argues otherwise. And i don't care how much money the GOA supposedly has, the GOA will be dead in a generation...their membership numbers have been declining for years, and they are producing no priests.
But that's really not the point. The point is that we have a system laid out by the Church Fathers that works. Our forefathers did the best they could when they arrived in this country...a magnificent job actually...but the truth is that thay were a bunch of illiterate peasants from the Old Country, who brought their "versions" of Orthodoxy with them. It's much like when I started to study Greek, and realized that much of what I had learned from my Yiayia's was really "peasant Greek".
My point, perhaps inarticulately expressed, is this - it's time to go ALL THE WAY back to the real Orthodox tradition of locally elected bishops, sitting in synod - nothing less. I've pointed out on many occassions how the modern day USA is in many ways a mirror of the Eastern Empire...in terms of education, literacy, economic and commercial success (well, until lately) etc. Why do we NOT deserve to move to the traditional Orthodox system of governance? The environment is perfect for it.
That, not anyone's ethnicity, should be the litmus test. If Metropolitan Jonah doesn't like that, and thinks that re-creating his Russian roots is the answer, then I've got a problem with him too.
This really doesn't have to be that complicated. But we kid ourselves if we don't think there are powerful foreign interests rowing in the opposite direction.
Just my opinion.
Best regards
Deaniac
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