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"We have concluded that when the principle of phyletism (i.e. ecclesiastical nationalism) is juxtaposed with the teaching of the Gospel and the constant practice of the Church, it is not only foreign to it, but also completely opposed, to it. We decree the following in the Holy Spirit: 1. We reject and condemn racial division, that is, racial differences, national quarrels and disagreements in the Church of Christ, as being contrary to the teaching of the Gospel and the holy canons of our blessed fathers, on which the holy Church is established and which adorn human society and lead it to Divine piety. 2. In accordance with the holy canons, we proclaim that those who accept such division according to races and who dare to base on it hitherto unheard-of racial assemblies are foreign to the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church and are real schismatics." Constantinople...1872
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    Local is still local

    Posted by Herman on 11/17/2009, 2:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Report: Greek Orthodox bishops in U.S. may take Turkish citizenship"

    As far as the priests and laity "electing" the bishops in the OCA, the point is that the hierarchs are free to disregard the vote of the priests and laity, as is appropriate (in my opinion) as they have done numerous times, especially in teh election of the primates.

    Not to get semantic (or anti-semantic), but regardless of if it is the laity or the bishops, they are still LOCAL bishops doing the electing, who still have to face up to their local laity if the selection is seriously unpopular. I cannot help but suspect that the reason Metropolitan Jonah was elected by the bishops is because they knew their flocks were in no mood for any more shenanigans. Sometimes that is how the Holy Spirit works, He uses more than one vector to make things happen.

    Thus the laity still have more influence on local bishops than they do on one thousands of miles away. Local bishops have a more challenging time hiding from local laity. Not that it can't be done, but it is definitely harder to do.


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