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Tori and billys kids Posted by Holly on 11/4/2009, 9:23 am Hi BT Enthusiasts, We were blessed with two little boys this Halloween weekend. Both born without c-section. We are very happy with the outcome. No color to speak of from this litter. However, we are asking for prayers for the littlest of the litter. He is sort of straddling the fence with regards to viability. I did something I've never done before. In the past I've noticed that fragile puppies seem to resist nursing. With a pronounced belly, they seem to go to rainbow bridge with constipation. Unable to eliminate because of weakness. I decided that I would work out any blocks early on by massaging the tummy from sternum to tail. It worked. This puppy had more feces than anything I've ever seen. I used a warm, wet q-tip and massage and with the help of momma we cleared his colon. Once we got him emptied he seemed to relax and stop whimpering. Now I bottle fed him the last two mornings than attached him to the nipple. Once he gets on he seems to understand the ritual. There were only two ties, 2 days apart. It has always made me think that the birth of some pups is a little premature and that sometimes one can save them with a little hands on and help. While some aren't viable and no one knows why, when does one give up on a beautiful healthy pup. If there is a possibility that we are prolonging the inevidible, that would break my heart. How many of these fragile pups have you saved and when do you know that the pup isn't meant to live? I could really use some feed back & prayers. Holly  Post a Response

Re: Tori and billys kids Posted by G Vogler on 11/4/2009, 4:10 pm, in reply to "Tori and billys kids" My mom has had more than her share of the puppies that you speak of. Of the, I want to say 5, that have done really bad (failure to thrive), only one has made it and is an awesome guy now. She had to sub-q him, tube feed him, all this stuff, and finally she noticed at about 4 weeks old, he was FINALLY nursing on his own and did fine, he actually ended up at 8 weeks old being the BIGGEST puppy of the 4. Maybe it was all the extra nutrients. I hope your pup makes it.  Post a Response

Photos of tori's boys Posted by Holly on 11/4/2009, 7:30 pm, in reply to "Re: Tori and billys kids" Enjoy, Holly  Post a Response

Re: Photos of tori's boys Posted by Marialice on 11/8/2009, 1:09 am, in reply to "Photos of tori's boys" Wow.. Holly.. I should have kept that little one you liked! I would have given you her If I knew that you were have these boy's!!!They look like some really nice seals.... Lucky you!!! I gave mine away for a black and white.. Marialice  Post a Response

Re: Photos of tori's boys Posted by j on 11/4/2009, 8:47 pm, in reply to "Photos of tori's boys" rich color and shiny coats! Look healthy have you given Liver Water? Give Mom Mother's Pudding and Corn Muffins to help with milk production. Here is the recipe for Liver water for fading puppies and puppy milk from the repo board. You can also give them FFP Beef Liver Remedy For Fading Puppies Large piece of Beef Liver-little bit of water-boil slowly, about 5 minutes until the blood comes out. Let cool-drain the liquid and put just 4 drops (no matter the breed) into a dropper and give to puppy. At first you give it every 2 hours for 12 hours, then every 4 hours. You can do this for however long you have to until you feel the puppy is thriving. Don't use any of the liver itself-it's way too rich--just the liquid. Puppy Milk One 10 can of goats milk 3 oz of Liver water (above) One raw egg yolk One cup of whole fat live culture yogurt One tablepoon of mayo or canola oil One dropper of infant vitamins One teaspoon of Karo...light or dark...doesn't matter which Mix in a blender, keeps in your fridge for 7 days. This is a thick formula, so adjust holes in nipples if necessary. It can be tubed. It has 10-12 calories per cc which should allow for good weight gain on your babies. This is my thought on this formula It is thick enough to avoid aspiration There is enough yogurt to avoid diarrhea issues that are so common with tubing There is enough glucose to avoid hypoglycemia There is also enough glucose to avoid constipation, common with tubing There are enough calories to set up a weight gaining pattern immediately Amino Acids in sufficient quantities to avoid juvenile cataract It is high in Fats, Proteins and Carbs with vitamins, minerals and iron and designed especially to head off the problems we all seem to have with tubing/hand raised babies.  Post a Response

Re: Photos of tori's boys Posted by Bobbie Hoke on 11/5/2009, 8:53 am, in reply to "Re: Photos of tori's boys" OK J Is the commet about avoiding JC with the amino acids in the puppy milk your comment?  Post a Response

Re: Photos of tori's boys Posted by j on 11/5/2009, 8:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Photos of tori's boys" No, all the copy in Italics is not from me, but from the Repo Board. :0)  Post a Response

Re: Photos of tori's boys Posted by Janice on 11/5/2009, 8:36 am, in reply to "Re: Photos of tori's boys" curious what Mother's pudding and corm muffins is? My vet told me to help with milk, puree raw beef liver and buttermilk, it works well.  Post a Response

Re: Photos of tori's boys Posted by j on 11/5/2009, 8:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Photos of tori's boys" Hi Janice, Corn Muffins are just regular corn muffins. I have 2 different recipes for Mother's Milk. I have used both and tasted both too. It is good. You can give the Mother's Pudding during whelping to keep calcuim and sugar levels up. They will lick it off a spoon even in labor. Then I put a big blob on their (mommie's) food every time I feed them while nursing to keep up their Calcium. I have never had any get loose poop from it, nor has anyone I know who uses it and the Mom's Love it. #1 one pack Vanilla pudding 1/2 cup sugar 4 cups whole milk 4 egg yolks cook until thick stirring the whole time. Takes about 15 mins. #2 4 cups whole milk 3 teas Vanilla 1/2 teas salt (i do not put in the salt) 6 tablespoons Cornstarch 2/3 cup sugar (I add 3 egg yolks) cook until thick stirring the whole time about 15 mins Fenegreek can be given to the Mom too until the puppies smell like maple syrup then you stop giving it to the mom. I have not tried this but know others who have, as well as breast feeding human moms. Hope this helps.  Post a Response

Re: Photos of tori's boys Posted by Holly on 11/5/2009, 10:56 am, in reply to "Re: Photos of tori's boys" As a nurser of my children, I think getting pups on the mom is of extraordinarially importance. I try to avoid supplementing because nothing can match the natural stuff. Last night, up most of the night making sure he latched on and got his fill. I also have taken heed of adding PolyVisol (infant vitamins) to my pregnant and nursing moms food, as suggested by my favorite book, How to breed your own show dog. I hate to hex myself but this little pup seems to be moving toward more viable position. He now, attaches himself to the teet and has more control of his head. But, like a turtle if he rolls to his back he get whiney and is unable to right himself. In the beginning, when I gently pulled on the scruff of the neck I noticed the skin didn't bounce back. This was a clear indication that he was struggling with dehydration. After a long night, he seems much more filled out. He is a cry baby as many have experienced, but his crying put me in action several times last night. It's funny once one has been a mom, the neccesary action can be with your eyes closed and automatic. He is a beautiful little pup and I would love to see how he does as a 6-8 weeks old. Will make time for a nap today, Holly  Post a Response

Re: Photos of tori's boys Posted by j on 11/5/2009, 9:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Photos of tori's boys" Yes the breast is best~! but sometimes in the begining they need an extra boost. :0)  Post a Response

Re: Photos of tori's boys Posted by Kimberly on 11/5/2009, 12:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Photos of tori's boys" I am with you as far as the nursing goes. Having nursed 7 babies of my own on demand that is what I first think of. I don't have anywhere near the experience the rest of you do, but in our last litter we had a pup that sounds just like your little guy. He could not right himself when flipped over, he could barely crawl to mama when he got pushed away. He would cry and cry. Mama didn't even know what to do. She would pick him up and bring him to me so I could help. We had mama and babies in our closet near our bed. Every time he would cry, which was like every 20 minutes, I would latch him back on. First night I hardly slept. Next night was a little better. After a couple nights he was doing great and everyone was sleeping though the night. Not that I won't at some point need to try something else. I just saved everything Jona and the others just said in case I do.  Post a Response

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