Positive Future

Posted by Yoey on 27/8/2012, 3:24 pm

Just a small heads up on a big project. NZACA is not scarey its an entity and it's there as the main body of the Surfcasting fraternity but also caters for boaties, freshwater anglers and to a very lesser extent kayakers. We have to look to the future and that is exactly what we are doing. The anchor is well and truly up and locked. I am not interested in what has gone before nor are any of us at the helm so to speak. A new day a new era. We are taking it into the new world in regards Media, Sponsorship, promoting our National Competition and the protection of all our Members in regards to the fishery and access to it. Join a Club if you haven't already done so. For those who ask what does the NZACA do for me? A bloody lot, you can be assured they do a lot. Nothing grows without roots and those you never see until you pull it out and then it dies

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Jase on 27/8/2012, 5:37 pm, in reply to "Positive Future"
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Has anyone looked into the possibility of simply offering membership without the necessity of having to join a club? Simply offer an affiliation fee and reap the benefits the NZACA offers to fishermen. Reality is, as much as noone wants to hear or admit it, some clubs need to take a look at themselves. Within a club there are many little "clicks" and it can actually make for an atmosphere that isn't always to the benefit of the club as a whole. In fact, in my experience a reputation or perception of someone outside a club can make a difference, and to simply work with the idea "Oh well, we don't want them anyway" moves away from the fact that maybe you do, and the persona needs to change to encourage people to do exactly that and absolutely do join. I still encourage people to join my old club, even though my personal experience was mixed. Club membership should be about bringing all types of people together to enjoy the sport as a whole. While I met and enjoyed many good times with club members, I can honestly say that it was not always that way. There seems to be a lot of emphasis on keep everything to yourself, or within your little group, and if you think differently to this idea then you are outcast, instead of simply accepted. Personally, my belief was always that as a club you would promote your chosen sport, support your club, encourage others to join and get behind a cause as a unit. In my experience that isn't what was happening to a greater degree. I'd like to see a more welcoming response and a more open feel to helping people out. Noone need expose a spot, that to them is special, but to ostracize people for having an open view and freely offering advice and very generalised locations to people with lesser knowledge than me seems somewhat narrow minded. To me that detracts from what a club is about, and by encouraging people outside the club you change the perception and encourage membership and create an inviting environment. This is not a slight on any individual or club. It is only my personal thoughts.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Chad on 27/8/2012, 6:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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I would like to see the introduction of water access within clubs and the NZACA. We all use 4x4's, and quads ect...... It has benefits thats why we use them. Allowing the use of LBG rigs/ dingy's, yaks to access spots opens up another level of fishing and would HELP those who can not walk so far....... I love the walk, but I also love landing on islands and all sorts to go fishing. You can argue most won't have them, but that is no different to those who don't have a quad. Times are changing, I think it is worth considering. You want more membership, cater for them. Not everyone will like this, and purist surfcasters would frown, but it opens up areas that are hard to get to. Just a thought. Jase you make very valid points too, I know what you mean and it sounds like a good idea. You guys have already begun to make big changes, it is a good concept asking the public how they feel and taking all points on board, even when some of us (me) rabbit on........ Yoey is a motivated person and will be an assets within the NZACA. I am looking forward to seeing change. Nice work Wairoa Hawkesbay Take Nothing For Granted

Re: Positive Future

Posted by EditB on 27/8/2012, 6:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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As far as I'm aware Chad, the NZACA does not 'ban' boat/yak/etc access for shore fishing. That limitation is purely for certain comeptitions like the Nationals. Brenton Cumberpatch North Shore Surfcasting Club, 2012 Treasurer.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Chad on 27/8/2012, 7:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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Yeah but most clubs won't allow it for points weekends bro. It is fine for fishing weekends where you are out on ya own account and chasing records, but not within most club rules ect... Wairoa Hawkesbay Take Nothing For Granted

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Yoey on 27/8/2012, 9:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"

The thing is where do you stop. when do you cater for the shore fisherman who wants a kayaker to take out his line, the use of spud guns to launch your baits, etc. etc. You are now allowed Quads and 4WDs to access areas in all competitions now but like all sports there are limitations that must remain. As for joining the NZACA without belonging to a club there is what is called the "Kiwi Club" which is for those who want to fish under the Governing body and also attend the Nationals. There is a fee of which I am not sure of the amount. I would, though, push for you to join a club that is local to you and take out of it what you can and if you are able, assist in making change. Cliques are sometimes appearance only as I found out when I joined Pania. There were rumours abound about the so called secret groups and indeed some people left because of their fears. Not true. There is not and was not one Member in Pania that was secretive nor forthcoming with information. You just needed to get off your arse and ask or travel to the different beaches and if they were there they would point you in the right direction, show you the right rigs, best bait etc. The thing was they will not babysit you. ie if you were there only to find out the best spots without getting out there, quite rightly you would be given the cold shoulder. I support that and advise new members of this. We have had 20 new Members in the last two months. All have fished with us and all have landed fish with the help and knowledge of other members.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Jase on 27/8/2012, 9:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"

I never left the club through fear. I left because I moved to the other end of the Island. I always stuck to what I believed in, and some took exception to that. I also had serious restrictions due to my financial situation, and now, sadly that is somewhat even more the case. That aside, I do support clubs, and would again if I had one that was local. However, with the nearest surfcasting club being 80km away, and the closer ones being game fish clubs only it makes it difficult to be too involved. I will make some enquiries as to whether or not those local clubs have a section that supports the type of fishing I enjoy. Support within clubs depends on the club and its particular members. In my particular case, some I got on well with. Some I did not. I never asked to be babysat, and always made my own way where I could. That aside, you answered my question to a point. Thank you.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Mark Roberts on 27/8/2012, 9:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
60.234.157.X

Yoey's onto it. When I joined Pania many moons ago, I asked questions and got answers. No problem. On the other hand, I didn't expect people to take me fishing. And didn't want that. I wanted to succeed on my terms. Not sure I did but I have my stupid pride. When Chad joined Pania, he gathered up all my old newsletters and filled in the gaps in his local knowledge. He won the championship in his first year in the club—unprecedented that was. Most secrets are self-deluding bullshit anyway . I haven't got any. Ask me anything. I'm easy .

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Jase on 27/8/2012, 10:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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C'mon, you aren't that easy. I heard you charge heaps.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by EditB on 28/8/2012, 8:46 am, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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Come and join the North Shore Surfcasting Club bro, no dramas about boat access on club fishes. Certain fishes are walk-in only but less than 1/4. Brenton Cumberpatch North Shore Surfcasting Club, 2012 Treasurer.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by EditB on 28/8/2012, 9:04 am, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
122.56.106.X

Joey, Your spudgun argument is skewed, you're not comparing apples for apples. Why must the access limitations remain? If quads and 4x4s are now allowed for access, why is it so hard to accept the use of boats and kayaks for access? What is it about the use of boats and kayaks to access fishing spots that makes people so resistant to change? Sometimes I think cliques are more just comfort zones in fishing clubs. I know I felt a little on the 'outside' when I joined the NSSC but I found that never once was I snubbed or ignored when I had a question on a technique or spot. What I've noticed is that clubbies will tend to be a bit cagey with certain favourtie spots until you have proven your commitment. Like anything really, if you put in the yards you reap the rewards Brenton Cumberpatch North Shore Surfcasting Club, 2012 Treasurer.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Jase on 28/8/2012, 9:17 am, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"

Fair comment. And fair enough. Still, I think its a good thing to encourage from the inside out, not leave a perception that if you're not in, you're not worth it. Part of the PR thing is to assist those outside your club. To be fair, for some people joining a fishing club is a bit scary. There seems to be a public perception that everyone in a club is a gun fisherman and you'll be made to look silly. That ideal needs to be changed a little.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Phill on 28/8/2012, 12:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
Tackle Tactics

What is the feeling out there of having the Nats in April instead of March as most of the open comps have finished by then. I understand the reason the Nats are held in March is because the goal posts go up in April but as we are moving away from those venues maybe we can change dates when the calendar is not so full on.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Yoey on 28/8/2012, 4:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"

Always looking at positives. But boat and kayak access is just not a goer. I dont want to be a stick in the mud but we have boat and kayak sections in the Nationals now but to make these available to shore fishermen is not going to happen. Just the same as we dont allow the use of private access. When you go to any National event the playing field has to be the same for one and all.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by EditB on 28/8/2012, 5:43 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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I still haven't heard why they're a no-goer. I keep hearing that you have a yak and boat section but I don't want to fish out of a boat or a yak, I want to fish off the shore. Have quads and 4x4s always been allowed? If not what happened to change there access status? Brenton Cumberpatch North Shore Surfcasting Club, 2012 Treasurer.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Chad on 28/8/2012, 7:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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Quad, land based access craft, no different, just a quad bike that floats and gives you more access to enjoy what NZ has to offer......... its moving with the times..... Small steps Worth at least bringing up at the next meting and considering. How many kayaks fished the last nationals? Drop it and add land based access via boat lol Wairoa Hawkesbay Take Nothing For Granted

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Yoey on 28/8/2012, 8:30 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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The "WHY" is quite simple and I have already explained it. The playing field "must" be equal. As has been explained re Private Access for the 2013 Nationals. " If all fishermen cant have access to the area, no one can" The same would stand for boat access. ie "if everyone cant get to it then no one can" Quads and 4WDs dont give you access to ledges accessable by boats and only make the carrying of gear easier. Sure they open up more beach for you but that is all. Ask as much as you like I will stand against it. I was surprised that at the start of this thread you wanted to keep aircraft out of it.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Phill on 28/8/2012, 8:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
Tackle Tactics

I was talking to a guy today and he was checking out Trademe for a helicopter .

Re: Positive Future

Posted by EditB on 28/8/2012, 8:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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Hold on, you're saying a "level playing field" and "if everyone can't get there, then no one can" but have no problem with quads and 4x4s opening up more of the beach and only make carrying the gear easier? Same arguments could be said for boats and kayaks. I'm not saying we have to fix this for the 2013 Nationals. I am saying that there are those of us who are NZACA associated who are interested in having it discussed calmly and logically and putting it through the proper processes and see what happens. Just cutting it off and dismissing does not promote a Positive Future. Brenton Cumberpatch North Shore Surfcasting Club, 2012 Treasurer.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Jase on 28/8/2012, 9:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"

The only way to get a true idea of what the members want is to do a survey of every club member who wants to have an opinion. Put it to the clubs in the NZACA Newsletter with exactly that question. "In future Nationals competitions, should the use of water craft be included with 4x4 and motorcycles as a means of accessing land based locations?" Let the members have their say. If the numbers come back anything more than even, then the option has to be put in place as a discussion piece. Anything less than half would mean majority rules and it stays as is. Just a thought.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Neil on 28/8/2012, 9:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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Sadly there would be somebody who would catch a few fish from the boat/yak and weigh them as shore caught . Disclaimer .Hamills staff member.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Chad on 28/8/2012, 9:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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Thats a bloody good response EditB It is a solid idea worth consideration for the future, not next year, but the future......... To say flat out no, is not doing the NZACA any favours. Only asking it be considered........ Wairoa Hawkesbay Take Nothing For Granted

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Phill on 28/8/2012, 9:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
Tackle Tactics

This is what they call a conundrum . As know one has negatively commented on changing the Nats date April it must be a go.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Rex HB on 28/8/2012, 10:30 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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Doesnt really bother me if you cross water to do land based fishing but does using a kayak/boat to get to an otherwise inaccessible spot make you a champion fisherman or just give you an unequal advantage? Surely if your a confident, quality surfcaster you'd be keen to show your skills by bettering the rest on the same playing feild. Thats the true mark of a champion isnt it? If your good enough you wont need water craft to show your the best.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Yoey on 28/8/2012, 10:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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LOL. I am trying to be logical . What I cant seem to convey to you is there is a huge difference between land based fishing where access is gained only by either walking, quads or 4x4s and being transported to a fishing spot by boat. There is nowhere accessable by quad or 4x4 that cant be accessed by walking but there are plenty of very good fishing spots that cant be accessed by anything but water transport thereby making the playing field unequal. Surely you can see that. I am not saying that in the future, "the future", there wont be a place for what you are asking, I wouldn't support it and if you were at the 2011 Nationals you would know that the majority ( all but three or four) were totally against it, but what I can definitely say is that you would fish in a totally different category than what is in place now. As different as boat and kayak. As for my post here I am open to discuss anything but what I was meaning re "Positive Future" we are finally walking in the right direction. When we are all running the same way, then will be the time to introduce new concepts. I'll give you your dues though you stick to your guns.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Mark Roberts on 29/8/2012, 7:46 am, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
60.234.157.X

Perhaps a problem is having just one competition with one 'National Shore Champion'. NZACA's use of the term 'shore champion' could be reviewed. It's not a term the media or general public relate to. We could have a contest along the lines of the Snapper 1000 at Whakatane, which is based on a stretch of clean beach accessible to everyone. Boundaries could be expanded somewhat for a national event. NZ Surfcasting Champion. Then have a open slather rock fishing contest with hired helicopters if you wish. NZ Rock Fishing Champion. This might be a contest of interest to the media, TV shows etc. Daylight fishing with good catches guaranteed, almost . When the Nationals has been held at BOP in the past, there has been a beach overnighter followed by a day session taking in the rocks. This concept could be implemented.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Chad on 29/8/2012, 9:31 am, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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Rex, its not a point to bring up if you are good enough, thats a weak factor....... I read that all through the previous thread about if you can't compete on the same beach you must be affraid of getting beaten..... yawn Here is my point to it. As fisherman, time flys and we all try new things to catch fish, like soft-baiting off rocks, fly fishing at the local bar, chasing flounder in a estuary.... These are all done to improve the fishing world and add new challenges. From this point you start looking for exciting new ways to find more fish, so you buy a quad ( as you have done rex) to fish places you would never get to walking ( being realistic ) ........ Once you have accomplished this, goals change and so do interests, you start looking future afield at areas that few people have fished trying to find that elusive fishing spot you dream of. Now these spots are not so accessible and the only way to accomplish this is to cross water to get to it. So in comes a new season, a list of goals set and now its just a waiting game, waiting for the weather to play its part and then she is all go!! Now its getting exciting again. Absolutely anyone can fish Whakaki, sure, but to me it loses its excitement factor. Anyone can catch a fish there and thats choice like I say, when you do something for so many years, you need to step it up and keep stepping it up to find that same level of enjoyment!! Now as the weather falls into play, and the forecast is fantastic to the point where as ya lay in bad all you can think about is all the planning of looking at maps, looking for photos, checking depth charts ect.... it all coming to plan and tomorrow is the day I find out if it is any good!! Now most people who fish feild weekend in a club only fish on those weekends as that covers allot of time, 12 or so weekends in a year, thats a large chunk! As a fishing club ( currently ) do you say to your keen member, no you are not fishing in our club weekend if you are going to do that, thats ridulas " are you not good enough to fish off the beach"....... where we go weekend after weekend after weekend after weekend ect...... catch the same fish weekend after weekend after weekend...... it becomes like ground hog day. To me, that guy has done his homework, and within the spirit of land based angling that person is now testing out spots that few have fished from...... Can you imagine the excitement of that?? Unfortunitly though, currently, this person has to make a big call, does he go off an be a lone wolf exploreing new country and taking fishing to new levels..... or does he reside to the fact that clubs dont except this, throw in the towel, and join them on Whakaki weekend after weekend after weekend to catch the same fish weekend after weekend after weekend...... Its not about how good you are Rex, or wether you believe those who wish to use a boat for access are not good enough, I would like to think we have proven we are..... But the point is changing to adapt to the times, more and more are doing this, and fishing is evolving. The thread states a positive future, why revert back to the old ways where one person doesn't like it and says flat out NO!! i say stuff that, think about it, and my point is put to you above, which I believe is a good argument. Now that is at a club level, like I said, small steps, but don't disregard it because you haven't thought much about it! Give it the time of day. It is not about winning or losing, it is a form of fishing that is no different to access from a quad, you are very nieve to think that walking and quad access is the same thing.... You are harldly going to walk 15k's of beach are you. I would be keener than most, but I wouldn't...... You hear the word boat, and there is a grown amongst the surf-casting futurity, but using it for land based fishing is merely a hurdle you have to get over. Just because you use a boat for access, much like a quad it does not guarantee you good fishing, there is no answer to that, all it does is open up exciting new locations to fish. To be able to do this as part of a club, and eventually in the NZACA is worth considering. Keep an open mind Yoey, or you are no different to anyone else who has had a role in the NZACA. I can except it being a no-go, if others have had that opportunity to think about it and the vote is fair and not political, or a bunch or old pen pushers making that call who do very little fishing. But thats all I am asking for, a fair oppertunity for the idea to go ahead. Chur Wairoa Hawkesbay Take Nothing For Granted

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Mark Roberts on 29/8/2012, 11:37 am, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
60.234.157.X

Referring to my post above, I'd like to elaborate on the possibility of media coverage. The NZACA Nationals in their current format is not a media-friendly event. Everyone disappears to top secret locations . Weigh-ins are not that exciting, although a couple of exec members had a blazing row at one—not recommended . It's very difficult to get a story or create a television show on land based fishing—catches are too fickle. However, an event similar to the Snapper 1000 could be of interest to a television fishing show—only a few kilometres of clean beach fully accessible for a camera crew on quad bikes, lots of competent anglers reasonably close together, lots of fish caught, easy communication by cellphone. Horrible weather could screw things up, but a film crew would have the option to pull out. To cover a rock fishing contest, a film crew would need a helicopter and a few GPS coordinates etc, which contestants could advise by cellphone—if they want to be on television but don't want competitors to know where they've gone . Media coverage is important in getting sponsors, is it not? NZACA wants sponsors but struggles to quantify the benefit to sponsors.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Rex HB on 29/8/2012, 1:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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Chad. My goals for this year are to catch a moki and a kingi, both which I havent done yet. I agree with you its nice to catch a snapper or two but after you’ve caught a few (apart fron the biggies) it could get a bit boring. New places and new species are always interesting and as surfcasters we should always look for new challenges or why bother.. I thought this conversation pertained to including water access to spots in the nationals. I wasn’t at any point suggesting you aren’t good enough to win another nationals as I know fully well what a champion fisherman you are and vividly remember the efforts you and Roger made to get to that elusive spot up north last time you won it. And I know you didn’t need a kayak then either. Personally I think you need to separate the challenge of doing something different like water hopping to remote spots, from the challenge of being the top surfcaster because they are different goals in my view. The nationals has these rules in place to ensure every one is on an equal footing at the start which is only fair isn’t it I actually don’t think water hopping to a spot is necessarily a real advantage, just a perceived one but many won’t see it that way. The problem as I see it is that many will think there’s a world of difference between using a quad or a 4 wheel drive to get to a spot and using a kayak. This is because pretty much every one who participates has one or the other or at least access to one by virtue of other club members etc.. Unfortunately the same cant be said for kayaks. You have to be seen to be fair even if its not as exciting as some would like?. . I can’t see any reason why it can’t be put to the NZACA though. Even if its not part of the open National championship, why not have a new separate category for what is clearly a developing area.. Maybe over time it will be moved into the main event as people see its not the issue they first saw it to be. It certainly offers another dimension to fishing, just one that some aren’t quite ready for yet? Rome wasn’t built in a day Chad but I’d put money on old pen pushers being involved somewhere in its construction. My thoughts as a member of the NZACA. And no I haven’t been to a Nationals as I can’t afford the week off sadly. Good luck to those who can.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Phill on 29/8/2012, 6:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
Tackle Tactics

Mark you are correct, promotion is the way to future proof the nzaca . Holding events where the media has access the fishermen , casters , and rock fishers . I have also noticed that not one poster has mentioned juniors ,correct me if I am wrong. Our younger members like Chad and co are the movers and uses . Our older members like myself tend more towards the organization of events . What I am saying is that we all have roll to play big or small . I was young once and used to see everything as black and white not unlike you Chad , my old man used to say that my opinions would change as I aged , I told him he didn't know what he was talking about , but I was wrong . So what does anyone think about running the Nats in April.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by scuzzy on 29/8/2012, 7:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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April is a hard month Phill- Easter - and school holidays- at least Feb-March is abit easier to arrange for most with family's

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Phill on 29/8/2012, 7:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
Tackle Tactics

Easter is not always in April , school holidays for juniors, most big money comps are all over , better fishing in April ,a bit quieter at work weather can be more settled . I am just pushing the boat out , you lot keep rowing.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Chad on 29/8/2012, 8:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
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At least you gave it a thought Rex and suggested options without writing it off completely, that's all anyone can ask. I know its a massive hurdle to get over and I am fully aware that there will be allot of cringes behind computer screens, I get that and I can except why, but keep an open mind. Phill, I know what you mean, and I respect that, but If I ever turn into that prick in the room who never goes fishing but objects to EVERYTHING!! Every club has one of those...... Then bop me on the head and chuck me in the drink. On a more serious note, it's allot like peoples taste in music, it matures with age. When I am older people will most likely be fishing with jet packs, but I assure you, I will revert back to this thread and keep an open mind. As for fishing times it all depends on the area you intend to fish. HB is better in March than April for snapper, eastern BOP is going to be better later in April as the water temp starts to decline and the smaller fish bugger off, Same as the east cape area with snapper. I wouldn't be bothered ether way Wairoa Hawkesbay Take Nothing For Granted

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Jase on 29/8/2012, 8:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
122.61.18.X

Earlier this year I went to a spot that at high tide was chest deep in water, but was accessible to wade to at low tide for the incoming. I wonder what area this might come under? Its land based, but at high tide you'd be silly to try access it from the beach. Would this location be classed as land based under the existing rules? I assume it would because anyone could wade to it, although I'm sure many would never try.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by jaypeegee on 29/8/2012, 9:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"

A level playing field is a concept about fairness, not that each player has an equal chance to succeed, but that they all play by the same set of rules. Ergo WHATEVER rules are set all are bound by them. This means that if marine craft access was allowed and rules supported their use ANY shore fisherman could get access to ANY spots they know will likely produce irrespective of the location of these spots (With specific regard to access assuming they exist inside the area specified by those running the competition) Thus the concept of a level playing field is maintained. Boat access: One could argue that not all Fishermen have access to Boats for this and this argument has strong merits. I certainly don’t have access to a boat for this sort of access. I also don’t have access to a 4x4 or a Quad bike. Nor do I have access to 20 years’ worth of experience or knowledge. But this is not about what anyone has access to. The concept is about fairness and abiding by the rules: Not about matching and comparing my resources against any of yours. But ensuring that any and everyone involved in the competition follows the same set of guidelines. One could fashion an argument along the lines of “I am a fisherman that wishes to fish a ledge that I can access by 4WD, Feet or Kayak. That is, All 3 of these methods of travel will get me to the spot. But I am suffering from an Ankle strain, my 4WD is temporarily out of order so my option I choose to employ is my Kayak. At this point you have utilized a valid option. If I was to swim 200 meters and drag my equipment behind me on a floatation pack to gain access to a spot offshore would I be disqualified? (Edit:Currently yes) If the rules were changed to focus on where the fish was caught from and landed from rather than how that position or location was arrived at then no. I suspect the attitudes towards the water access are carried over through tradition and less to do with any concept based on fairness. That they are bound to a historical concept of what was considered shore based and possibly purist in form.If the rules were changed they would be changed for ALL. This would add gains to all. Consider the reverse... If all fishermen were only allowed to use one brand/Model of rod, reel, line and bait how would that impact the contest? But with all this please remember:If you ask my wife I am regularly wrong....Take from that what you will Please note: I wrote this today whilst very busy preparing a company wide release of an important software upgrade. I realised that I had put an early draft of my thoughts up: I have edited this and the content and intent have been changed to reflect what I intended.My apologies for editing after the fact.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by EditB on 29/8/2012, 10:43 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
27.252.61.X

Nicely put jaypeegee. And floatation devices are mentioned in the rules so you couldn't swim it and float your gear. From the 2012 Nats handbook rules : 1.11 Shore fishing areas to be such that all competitors have equal chance of reaching desirable fishing areas within the times allowed and so those with beach accessible vehicles do not have an unfair advantage. The use of boats, floatation devices, special equipment, aircraft, etc, to reach shore fishing areas is not permitted. Brenton Cumberpatch North Shore Surfcasting Club, 2012 Treasurer.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by scuzzy on 29/8/2012, 11:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
121.79.208.X

well done Jaypeegee- very constructive

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Chad on 30/8/2012, 8:33 am, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
125.239.54.X

Jaypeegee top post bro, well constructed. Nice one EditB, thats a classic, unfair advantage. Jase your spot would fall into LB and would be fine, just dont get caught with air in your pockets Wairoa Hawkesbay Take Nothing For Granted

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Rex HB on 30/8/2012, 8:42 am, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"

Fairness, equality, leveling the playing field, change the rules, paddle to ledges etc etc blah blah blah. I think using a kayak to get to that otherwise inaccessible ledge or rock on the shore is a great idea if your up for a challenge or you just want to push that extra kilometre. Theres nothing wrong with pushing the boundaries. Its a good idea and good for the sport. But can it work in a competition arena? I don't know. The main problem with all this was actually put forward by Neil ages back on this thread and that is cheating. There will always be that temptation for someone less honest to this if you include kayaks? How do you get round that one chaps? Or is so unlikely ir doesnt matter?

Re: Positive Future

Posted by GaryK on 30/8/2012, 9:07 am, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
222.155.194.X

I say................... Boats for boaties. Boots for surfcasters. Pania Club had a problem once with surfcasters using boats to carry huge amounts of burley into fishing areas and dumping it prior to a fishing weekend. We wouldnt want that going on would we?

Re: Positive Future

Posted by jaypeegee on 30/8/2012, 9:40 am, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"

Gary Let me remind you A level playing field is a concept about fairness, not that each player has an equal chance to succeed, ***but that they all play by the same set of rules****. Ergo WHATEVER rules are set all are bound by them. Competition is not just about who is better at a disciplne but who has the combination of determination, Skill, Attitude, Desire to win, Resources,Experience, and Luck. On the day.....Just to name the first few that come to mind. This discussion revolves around rules that apply to competitions (as a subset of what Yoey can take/consider taking to the NZACA to help bring the thoughts of the anglers on this forum in front of this body) and the rules that govern them and hopefully the logic that is behind those rules and what they intend Any governing body will aim to reduce loopholes to be better placed to police the comp - it is a natural reaction to most peoples attempts to get ahead of their competitors. Thus your example, if allowed under rules, can be employed by anyone with the determination to do it. If it is cheating due to being prohibited then that is a clearly seperate case. But if it IS allowed (And this is for Yoey and the NZACA) Then what is its intent? Not what is the advantage (real or percieved) The same goes for the consideration of Transport (Kayaks) If allowed and or considered: Then what is it intended to do? If any rule is changed there has to be a beneficial reason behind its mechanical function.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Phill on 30/8/2012, 9:59 am, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
Tackle Tactics

You can not have the words intent in your rule book, it to grey. In a past life it was part of my job to bend the intent of the rules to cracking point. rules have to be clear and conciss.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by jaypeegee on 30/8/2012, 10:26 am, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"

Hi Phil I did not write that intent should be a descriptor or included in the actual rules them selves. This would be better used (if at all) in a code of conduct situation I have used the word intent in the intended context i.e during the consideration process.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by EditB on 30/8/2012, 2:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
122.56.106.X

Maybe a matter of symantics here but we're discussing shore based fishing access, not just surfcasting Gary. Maybe this is where some of the reluctance to see water based transport comes from? Also didn't the berley before lines down get rectified around the 2010 Nats? Berleying was classified as fishing, as by itself one does not go berleying for the fun of it (at least I don't ). As far as cheating goes, I think you'll be far more likely to have cheating at the comps where there are big money prizes than at Nats which is essentially a large club comp. Brenton Cumberpatch North Shore Surfcasting Club, 2012 Treasurer.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Jono on 30/8/2012, 3:11 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
202.89.152.X

on the cheating front, whats stopping people using long lines on the sneak with the current lay out that we have now?? you can make things fool proof but then along comes a morron!

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Jase on 30/8/2012, 5:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
122.61.18.X

There is a really easy way to stop cheating. Make it known that anyone caught and proven to be cheating has their name published on the NZACA website, and the club they belong to is disqualified from not just the current Nats, but banned from entering the next. Just the fear of the repercussions from your fellow club members should be enough to deter it. Its harsh, but it'd put a stop to it straight away.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Yoey on 30/8/2012, 7:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"

Exceptional. Nearly need an aqualung to get to the bottom of this thread but thanks everyone for the comments. Good debate and somewhat enlightening on some fronts.

Re: Positive Future

Posted by Jase on 30/8/2012, 7:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Positive Future"
122.61.18.X

Consider yaself learned then.