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Vehicle recalls # Posted by Mark Banks on October 31, 2010, 9:04 pm Message modified by board administrator November 1, 2010, 1:05 pm I would like to tell you about a few things that have occurred recently and I welcome any thoughts from you guys. Now this may well be just my sceptical mind ticking on over time………..what do you think?? 1) I took a Ford C-max to a Dealer last week to have a new dash cluster coded in due to a fault that I had diagnosed which was causing an intermittent cut out. When I checked the car in I was asked to sign the job card which was fair enough but I declined on the offer of a free vehicle health check for obvious reasons. I was told that they would do it anyway even if I crossed it off. Not wanting to get his back up because I was waiting for it to be done, I politely told the service receptionist that if they had time to waste then go ahead. Anyway about an hour and a bit later the job was done and I was presented with a health check report and an estimate for work required totalling over £800 including tyres, brake pads and front and rear washers not working. The interesting part of this was that the washer fluid had run out on my way over to them and they were quoting £142 to rectify an electrical problem on the washer system! Again I politely declined and topped up the washer bottle when I got back to work….. Ah ha they worked, that could have been the easiest £142 that anyone had earned! 2) My Father in law took his 2005 Honda Jazz into his Local dealer for an important safety recall the week before. http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/searches/expand.asp?uniqueID=344E993099F4C562802576B9003C5A32&freeText=Blank&tx= They replaced the driver’s side electric window switch panel as there was a risk of an electrical fire if water entered the switch. Now I’m sure we all know that water and electricity do not mix... full stop! Anyway, he came away with a free health check report stating that he needed tyres and brake pads replacing. Like I say these instances got me thinking about the numerous vehicle recall stories that have appeared in the news and media lately. There are many more listed on the following link… some seeming a little trivial by description. http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/apps/recalls/searches/search.asp I am in no way criticising the importance of safety recalls when they are valid but this whole ‘free vehicle health check’ while your car is in does seem like a good way for dealer networks to sell more tyres and brake pads etc. Probably just me being sceptical but I wondered if anyone else had any thoughts or experiences on this subject?? Cheers, Mark

Re: Vehicle recalls Posted by Pete Mutlow on October 31, 2010, 9:33 pm, in reply to "Vehicle recalls" Peter Mutlow Nice post Mark.... I always smile to myself when I go past various establishments which advertise "Free Brake tests etc" I know they will find something "wrong" to garner more trade. The down side of this is the customer gets wary of being conned and when you or I find something that needs doing in addition to the work that has been authorised, they have that in the back of the mind. A for instance with me is that I like to fit new plugs if a coil has gone down. I am sure there are many more examples out there. Regards Pete M

Re: Vehicle recalls Posted by Steve Nicholas on October 31, 2010, 9:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls" Stephen Nicholas Hi Mark ...and are these 'erberts signed up to Motor Codes? Fellow Sceptic, Steve

Re: Vehicle recalls Posted by Tom Williams on November 1, 2010, 11:16 am, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls" Tom Williams In the past few months we have seen an increasing amount of virtually fraudulent behaviour. Customer one 'phoned for advice, her son had been to a 'quick fit' operation and had been told that it was illegal to have tyres more than five years old. Customer two needed her airbag system repairing immediately because the Fiat dealer had told her that if the warning light came on her insurance was invalidated. Last year I had to talk to an unhappy customer who had recently had their car MOT'ed and passed by us. One of the fast fit tyre chains had visited her work car park and left notes under all the windscreen wipers. Her tyres were 'illegal' according them. Of course they were nowhere near needing replacement. It's becoming more common to have cars booked in for brake discs and pads, only to find they don't need it. Why? because when they had their car serviced 'under warranty' the dealer said it needed doing urgently.

Re: Vehicle recalls Posted by Pete Mutlow on November 1, 2010, 5:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls" Peter Mutlow .......and hence we all get tarred with the same brush as crooks Rgds Pete M

Re: Vehicle recalls Posted by Mark Banks on November 1, 2010, 7:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls" ".......and hence we all get tarred with the same brush as crooks" Hi Pete, this was kind my point. It seems that this type of practice in dealers etc. seems to be a common occurrence. Yet your average consumer sees things like the recent Which report and thinks that the independents are the bad guys! Hi Steve, I purposely did not mention any codes or schemes because in the many cases of 'virtual fraud' as Tom says that I have seen or heard about. Their intentions prove that they do not work to the code of conduct anyway! But to answer your question...... Yes. How will this age old dilemma be fixed??? Regards, Mark

Re: Vehicle recalls Posted by Steve Nicholas on November 1, 2010, 9:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls" Stephen Nicholas Hi Mark "How will this age old dilemma be fixed???" The first and major problem is that our trade is not seen in the same light as other professions, which, when you consider the safety reponsibilities we carry, it should be. It is a relatively new profession and has changed so rapidly over the last 100 years that no regulatory mechanism could hope to keep pace. This is partly the result of perceived (and real) dishonesty and partly due to the way the trade is given a cheap and shoddy image by fast-fits, cheap servicing offers, cheap MOT fees...the list goes on. In short, it is being undersold every day with an eye to a fast buck being the main and misguided motive. However the dealerships, who should be leading the field in raising the game, are some of the worst offenders it appears and are slowly filling the void of incompetence left by the high-tech-induced demise of the weekend mechanics! The situation is not helped by the plethora of schemes intended to try and pull it all together but just pulling in all directions. Any chance of us having a coherent voice or serious lobbying power is diluted by this piecemeal approach. The only answer for me is that my customers don't even know or care about the various schemes; they don't even care that they can get the job (or A job) done cheaper down the road. They care that I stop and talk to them about their car, it's problems, how I can help, what it might cost if I don't find any additional problems etc. I provide an old-fashioned type of service which a lot of consumers have no concept of in this high-pressure world; but that's how it used to be. My point here is that we need to stick to our principles and continue to maintain the standards in our own small corner of the world. My own take on it all, and I hope some of it made sense! Regards, Steve

Re: Vehicle recalls Posted by sean savage on November 2, 2010, 5:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls" Sean Savage Steve i couldnt have worded that any better!! Good honest service at a "fair" price and with that i find 98% of my customers reward me with loyalty,trust and recomendation to friends and family. Treat your cutomers as you would expect to be treated. sean

Re: Vehicle recalls Posted by Ed Kaps on November 4, 2010, 6:05 pm, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls" Edward Kaps Reminds me of the worldwide recall BMW initiated some years ago for a potential problem with the rad pressure cap-even vehicles 6+years old. Got to have been the cheapest update of their Database for all BMW owners, but there again, maybe silly me is being unduly cynical. Ed Kaps

Re: Vehicle recalls Posted by Declan McCormack on February 9, 2011, 10:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls" Declan McCormack This trade is getting harder to give customers correct advice due to an others and also I am finding the MOT test does not help. For instance tyres now are perfectly legal as long as the central 3/4s are above 1.6mm, so if you carry out a service and find the inner and outer edges are basically bald then in my opinion on winter roads these tyres are unsafe on cornering but you advise the customer clearly that they are legal but could be a potential safety issue and my advice would be to have the tracking checked and tyres replaced but you then find 2 days later they have attended a MOT bay who advises they are perfectly legal and fine. The customer now has the perception that I would have been upselling him tyres. The customer will have taken on board "still legal" and the fact You advise replacement as "could be potentially unsafe" will have flew straight out the other ear. So I am finding you need to make every bit of advice as crystal clear as possible so he understands that you are offering good logical safety advice rather then trying to upsell. Joe Public still has a long way to go in understanding the compexities of the modern car with out the odd vaque legality versus safety comparison thrown in.

Re: Vehicle recalls Posted by Gary Done on February 10, 2011, 9:14 am, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls" Gary Done Hi Declan..The "centre 3/4 rule applies to tread..tread is defined by having a tread wear indicator in the "channel"..if it doesn't have then its called a "sipe"..For instance some tyres only have twi's in the small "channel" in the centre of the tyre..the rest of the tyre can be completely bald and still pass an mot..frustrating i know even for us testers..Gary

Re: Vehicle recalls Posted by Tom Williams on February 12, 2011, 1:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls" Tom Williams I'm suspicious about the statement that the MoT tester/station said that the tyres were "perfectly legal and fine". Almost every tester of my aquaintance would have had to pass the tyres, as that is what the law requires. However, an Advisory Notice would almost certainly have been issued. Many customers tend to gloss over that fact. Issue a VT32 with about 20 items on it and they'll probably still tell their friends in the pub that it passed with flying colours! We all know that the MoT test is far from perfect. In the main, it mostly does what it needs to do, which is to prevent accidents caused by badly maintained vehicles.

Re: Vehicle recalls Posted by Sean Connelly on February 16, 2011, 9:01 am, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls" Declan, Unfortunately, very few motorists understand that the MOT test checks on a certain amount of items on the vehicle meet the lowest possible standard for safety "at the time of test", and that the next day these items now may become fail items. Yes all testers should always provide Advisory notices and explain to the customers that this was the case and that the advised items need addressing in a timely manner. From the servicing side we tell our customers that tyres/brakes, etc are ok now must may not last until the next service. There are plenty of customers who don't check tyres, lights, etc on their cars on a weekly basis and rely on the servicing to keep the cars correct and don't want the hassle of having to remember to bring the car back in 3 months for new brake pads so accept our recommendation to have the pads, tyres, etc done now so they know they don't have to worry for 12 months until the next service. Of course not all customers can afford to have the work done in one go and prefer that you can give them your best guess as to how long the pads, tyres, etc might last before they need replacing. We just have to make sure we explain it as clearly as possible as to what we have found and the consequences of it. We find that most customers are relieved that their car passed the MOT with advisory points and then have a clearer idea on what they need to do and when to ensure everything is ok as we all know how a lot of customers can leave things like MOTs to the very last moment! Regards Sean Link: Macclesfield MOT & Service Centre

Re: Vehicle recalls # Posted by Paul Foster on November 19, 2011, 11:43 pm, in reply to "Vehicle recalls #" Paul Foster Hi. As some of you may know, I used to run my own Garage but closed it in favour of a regular wage and went over to the dark side - I now work for a main dealer. These 'VHCs' are supposedly required as a 'Duty of Care' so we don't send out vehicles with unreported defects after having them in for repairs. Frankly that's a load of 5hite and it's used as a sales tool, which is fair enough if the report is genuine. However, the other day I reported "Front pads 60% worn. Discs slightly lipped.". This was marked by me as 'Amber' - no action required. I happened to see the copy given to the customer. It had been changed to 'Red' (urgent action required) and the text "Discs and Pads required" added to my report. At 60% worn! My point is that it's not forced to be the Techs that are trying to fleece the unsuspecting punter. We have to fill these damn things in (even though we don't get allowed any time to do it) and we have to report anything we see just to cover our backs. The problem starts when the system is abused by over zealous service admin staff who are under pressure to up-sell on everything. To make matters worse the Manufacturers screw the Dealers into the ground as far as labour times are concerned so this puts more pressure on the service departments. None of this excuses Sharp practice but these are the some of the reasons for it. I just hope that people have the sense to have these things double checked before wasting their money!

Re: Vehicle recalls # Posted by Mark Carter on November 21, 2011, 1:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls #" Mark Carter Hi Paul, >>> the other day I reported "Front pads 60% worn. Discs slightly lipped.". This was marked by me as 'Amber' - no action required. I happened to see the copy given to the customer. It had been changed to 'Red' (urgent action required) and the text "Discs and Pads required" added to my report. At 60% worn! <<< I hope Chris from Motor Codes is reading this !!! I bet this dealer is flying the motor codes flag. Regards mark

Re: Vehicle recalls # Posted by Tony Ludford on November 21, 2011, 4:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls #" Tony Ludford Don't knock it Mark. The amount of customers we have picked up from main dealers over-quoting or being pushy has been great. We've done free assesment, and offered advise on potential life in miles/date and followed up with a call to remind the customer it's time for us to take another look at their brakes. Customers are over the moon at getting the service they've been paying for (and expecting) at the dealer, for a more sensible price from us, usually resulting in them telling us to replace/rectify any faults on the second visit.

Motor Codes wins OFT Approval Posted by Peter Warman on November 22, 2011, 7:24 am, in reply to "Re: Vehicle recalls #" Peter Warman - Administrator Looks like its official then. From Chris Masons Twitter "Daybreak breaks the big news. Motor Codes gains OFT approval status for our Service and Repair Code!" UKAT

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