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Main dealer parts warranty procedure # Posted by Michael Whitworth on January 4, 2012, 9:51 am Message modified by board administrator January 5, 2012, 9:56 am When we are supplied with faulty parts, we are finding more and more now that the manufacturers are employing a policy of insisting the vehicle is booked into one of their agents for testing and confirming before they will replace any faulty components. Even if the part is faulty out of the box! From our point of view as the repairer it is a great inconvenience and even more so for our customers. Why should they bring a car to us to fix for us to then insist it has to go to the agent because we have been supplied with faulty parts!! whilst I can understand this policy is due to the amount of none faulty parts being submitted for warranty by poorly equipped garages who don't really understand how to test these items. Is this policy contravening my statutory rights as a bonifide trader or does it affect my customers rights? Has anyone actually challenged this policy? And if so, What was the outcome? I am sure there are many others out there who have been affected by this, I would be interested to hear your views and opinions. HNY to all, Mike.

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure. Posted by Ed Kaps on January 4, 2012, 2:23 pm, in reply to "Main dealer parts warranty procedure." Edward Kaps Hi Mike This has beem BMW stance for many years, I also find it difficult to live with. From their point of view they are checking these items according to BMW procedure and if found to be faulty will be replaced by them free of charge, but if not found to be faulty have charged for their time. However, they can and do get it wrong, which then involves considerable time and effort on your part to resolve this to your customers satisfaction whilst doing nothing for you other than raising blood pressure. I have in the past submitted a bill to BMW for my time (and been paid) when their initial assessment was subsequently shown to be wrong. I am sure that their warranty policy will have been passed in front of their lawyers before becoming normal procedure and I do know that this is the same throughout the world (for BMW) Ed Kaps

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure. Posted by Andy Mason on January 5, 2012, 8:46 am, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure." We have nearly always replaced warranty items ourselves and then done a parts warranty. We lose the labour, but the dealer does'nt get there sticky fingers on our customer and do unwanted "safety checks" etc, and blaming fauly fitment, hinting how incompetent everybody apart from themselves is. I know it is'nt an ideal situation on larger warranty claims, but at least we retain our customer. Andy

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure. Posted by Michael Whitworth on January 8, 2012, 1:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure." Mike Whitworth - Administrator Hi Ed, I had a JBE last year for a 1 series that had no operating software installed so we could not comm with it (even with brown adapter cable). The agent insisting we had the car recovered to them for them to diagnose the problem. I was not prepared to do this so bought another new one, fitted and programmed it and got the Autologic software engineers to do us a report based on the log I sent in of Autologic trying to make comms with the JBE. I had to hold out for a couple of months before they agreed to credit it. And I had a similar issue with a part from TPS a couple of years ago, again it took a long time to get a credit. They even sent the part back to me saying rejected due to warranty procedure not being followed! Andy as you can see I have taken the same stance as you in two cases, and followed the manufacturers procedure in the case of a Corsa Easytronic unit that went down 6 months after fitting, it took them 2 weeks to diagnose the fault but did eventually concede and fitted a new unit with no charge. None of these situations are ideal and I am sure they contravene our statutory rights if it was pushed. Do we have any motor trade body Representatives as members who might be able to clarify this, I am sure it would benefit ALL members should we have a definitive answer. I must say I am surprised at the poor response to my original post as I am sure we all come across this problem from time to time. It is especially so for people who like myself want to fit the best quality part to be sure of completing an effective warrantied repair. regards, Mike

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure. Posted by Peter Warman on January 8, 2012, 2:13 pm, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure." Peter Warman - Administrator Hi Mike This time last year the alternator went down on my daughters car, I called the dealer as I wanted to fit genuine. They told me the only one they had was one that had been fitted to a vehicle in their own workshop and then taken off again (no reason given) I accepted it as I was desperate to get her back on the road, they also assured me it will still have its 12 months warranty Within a month the light was on and not charging. They said I would have to follow the normal procedure ie: pay for another and send the other back under warranty I called the rep and told him it was unacceptable especially as it had already been fitted in their own workshop and I might have to expose their bad practice on a certain web forum They did a straight swap. The new one has been on all year with no problems The substitution of new parts is common practice at many dealerships to verify a fault, If it does not cure then its put back into stock, but has it been damaged during this process? This goes against their own guidelines on returns for electrical items, but they will not think twice of selling these items onto us. They may even know the part is faulty before it leaves their stores (allegedly) Peter

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure. Posted by Phil Dunmore on January 9, 2012, 8:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure." Philip Dunmore As I understand it the warranty liability is with the party that supplied the goods or services. You are liable to your customer, the dealer is liable to you. Have had this discussion with more than one factor. They say the manufacturer is delaying, avoiding, disputing etc. I say I don't care, not my problem. Always worked so far. How much it has to do with spend versus law, I don't know. If I was confident the part was faulty, I would replace it myself and submit warranty claim to supplier. I think the key is to document thoroughly what is wrong and how it was proven. Also keep evidence in case of dispute. I think if you make it clear that you are confident and will not be fobbed off things will usually be resolved.

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure. Posted by Sean Mc Gettigan on January 10, 2012, 7:32 am, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure." Sean McGettigan I am currently having this issue with TPS over a faulty ECU supplied to me. The TPS stance on warrenty is very simply, WE DO NOT DEAL WITH ANY WARRENTY ISSUE'S ie NO TPS parts supplied have ANY warrenty with TPS. They do however give a warrenty on items up to £50 as a 'goodwill gesture' When there is a fault and you contact them regarding it their responce is 'Contact the dealer and book it in for a warrenty claim, its nothing to do with us' As you can imagine the dealer are most helpful to sort this problem out for an independant who has not bought the part from them in the first place!! So be warned if you are using TPS, their own terms and conditions on the rear of each invoice says you have a warrenty with them (as required by law) BUT when there's and issue YOU DO NOT!! Better off using the dealer incase of any warrenty issues. Regards Sean

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure. Posted by Phil Dunmore on January 10, 2012, 6:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure." Philip Dunmore Time for a call to Trading Standards Sean.

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure. Posted by Lee Mackintosh on January 10, 2012, 7:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure." Lee Mackintosh Not to sure if trading standards will help out much with this. When i had a problem with a local motor factors i spoke with trading standards and they told me that they don't involve them selves with business to business arguments so i don't know who else does. Don't even know if this is a fact but i mentioned trading standards to the motor factor and eventually they paid up.

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure. Posted by kelly clarke on January 10, 2012, 7:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure." Kelly Clarke I am currently fighting a case with the local BMW dealer over aBC1 i fitted to a mini, I have told them it's faulty the customer has gone to their wiorkshops for rectification work only to be told they cannot get comms with the unit she has returned to me only to find they piushed the plug out of its holder and so could not even plug into the 16 pin socket have told their workshops this and they are not in the slightest interested and still adamant that unless they diagnose it no money will be forthcoming for another unit. It all stinks and need to be sorted as it is against us all the time and to top it the dealers do not want cars more than 3 years old in their workshops with problems as they take too long to sort when they get complex problems as they cannot substitute parts F.O.C. when the manufacturer doesn't pay for it.

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure. Posted by Andy Mason on January 11, 2012, 9:35 am, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure." Andy Mason This was the whole point of my post, they tell your customer that you are incompetent, when most of the time they havent got a clue. They are not interested in your warranty. Parts warranty is not ideal, but a lot easier and less hassle. Andy

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure Posted by Ainsley McEwan on January 11, 2012, 5:24 pm, in reply to "Main dealer parts warranty procedure #" Ainsley McEwan Hi Mike I have had so many problems with warranty claims that I now avoid dealer parts wherever possible and use the local factors stipulating only quality parts when ordering (Bosch, Mann etc.).If faults do arise I find the factors much easier to deal with than the dealer who just don't seem to care. I find that often it is cheaper to rectify any fault myself, rather than waste time arguing with the dealer and spend that time on a productive job.I also try to make sure I have enough profit on parts sales so I can use a proportion to cover any costs. Ainsley McEwan

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure Posted by Sean Mc Gettigan on January 12, 2012, 6:44 am, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure " Already done that Phil and as Lee said they are not interested as its business to business. Their advise was to send a recorded delivery letter advising of the dipute and asking to be contacted regarding it, done that and it was ignored. When I phoned them back (trading standards) they advised the small claims court. Regards Sean

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure Posted by Andy Evans on January 12, 2012, 8:57 am, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure " Hi Sean, are you a member of FSB? if so maybe its worth having a chat with there legal dept. cheers Andy E http://www.fsb.org.uk/

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure Posted by Sean Mc Gettigan on January 12, 2012, 11:30 am, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure " Sean McGettigan Thanks Andy, I am a member and have tried them also to no effect. Keep them comming Regards Sean

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure Posted by Lee Mackintsoh on January 12, 2012, 5:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure " Lee Mackintosh I think its a case of TPS knowing exactly what there doing with regards to trading standards or any other Automotive body and they just push you as far as they can until eventually you give up. I suppose there theory is how much money or time will us smaller independent garages waste in fighting TPS. What would be the outcome in a small claims court battle.

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure/motor factor Posted by Colin on January 12, 2012, 6:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure " Colin Jupp On a positive note I did receive full payment including labour charge for an ADL clutch kit which suffered from a judder from the day of fitting. I guess it took a month or so for my factor to sort it out and I did have to pay for the replacement initially but it kept my customer happy and I wasn't at the mercy of a main dealer!

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure/motor factor Posted by dave harney on January 12, 2012, 7:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure/motor factor " Hi, It appears that when selling business to business, they can put almost anything into the contract, it's up to the buyer to decide if they want to do business on there terms ! Transactions between businesses are covered by the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 (UCTA). In general, businesses are assumed to be free to enter into whatever contracts they agree between themselves - so you should make sure you're happy with the contracts you agree with other businesses. However, the UCTA places a number of restrictions on the contract terms businesses can agree to. Specifically, it lays down rules for the ways in which vendor businesses can use exclusion clauses to limit liability in certain areas. The business selling the goods or services isn't allowed to exclude liability for: death or injury - under any circumstances losses caused by negligence - unless to do so is 'reasonable' defective or poor quality goods - unless to do so is 'reasonable' Link: Business to Business Sale of Goods

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure/motor factor Posted by Jon Morgan on January 15, 2012, 8:57 am, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure/motor factor " Jonathan Morgan Regards agreeing to do business on the terms stated on the back of the receipt - In the case of TPS, they have a monopoly on the sale of VAG parts in the UK. Therefore, if you want to buy VAG genuine parts there is only one franchised supplier nationally. I suspect if it went to court & was challenged, the terms they are imposing on customers could be deemed unreasonable under the unfair contract terms act, based on the fact there is no other option to obtain genuine VAG parts other than TPS. Nobody likes a monopoly. Another rant about TPS - their trade discount is shockingly poor - but again they have a monopoly, so again - everyone can like it or lump it seems to be the attitude. We've attempted to get better discount off them but they really couldn't give a toss - there is nowhere else to go It's a shabby setup driving the quality of VAG Spares supply right down. I think they could possibly remove all the blarney on the back of their invoices & replace it with something like. "When you buy stuff from us it's on our terms - if you don't like it you can go screw yourself - where else are you gonna go then eh? Hahahaha lol - loser!" That'd cover it so everyone knows where they stand immediately, without trawling through all that legal talk. Jon

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure # Posted by kev adam on January 18, 2012, 6:25 pm, in reply to "Main dealer parts warranty procedure #" Kevin Adam we fitted an abs sensor 2 month ago supplied by tps, customer came back with same fault,checked and sensor faulty again. phoned tps and told because it was over £50 it would have to go to dealer to get confirmed not happy at all with this situation but after heated conversation with them ,they wouldn,t budge booked in with dealer and dropped off this morning to get sorted.service manager told us we would have to pay £71 diagnostic charge before they would look at job because the part cost only £63 i brought the car back to workshop.going to order another sensor from tps to keep customer happy but will never use them again

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure # Posted by Dave Hill on January 18, 2012, 10:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure #" The best course of action I think, is to vote with your feet! March on & find another supplier. Mind you, it is quite likely that most suppliers are adopting the same stance. We have blown TPS out this week after we asked for a couple of copy invoices, so that the account could be settled correctly. Paula was informed that there was a charge for a copy invoice. I took the phone & expressed my opinion (you can imagine) I also mentioned the wonderful "press" that they are getting on this & a other prominent UK motor trade forums. I gave them my phone number & said that I would be happy to offer a little constructive feedback & that if I didn't receive a call, then it would "speak volumes" about their position. So far I have heard nothing from accounts or management. I have however heard plenty from the sales rep, who is doing her best to gloss over the shitty way that TPS operate. (She deserves a medal) On the flip side, I suppose we could be suffering from the dealer experiences, of the less professional garages, that will send parts back as "faulty" when in truth, they just didn't fix the fault. I am sure that we have all experience a battery returned by someone who found it to be discharged a couple of days after it was supplied. Some folks will blame the part as duff, in spite of seemingly obvious evidence & with no testing to back up their convictions. I wouldn't refund or exchange a battery without first confirming it is at fault either. Sorry if those last comments go against the trend of this thread. Although I would say that I would deal with any potential warranty claim promptly.

Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure # Posted by Lee Mackintosh on January 19, 2012, 8:10 am, in reply to "Re: Main dealer parts warranty procedure #" Lee Mackintosh The problem we have in Northampton is that the VW dealer will supply parts but wont deliver or give any trade discount as they say there a retail parts department not intended for trade so use TPS. Seat/Audi dealer will offer trade discount but stock isn't the best but then i suppose they know TPS is really the trade outlet.

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