Posted by hummy on April 11, 2007, 9:09 am, in reply to "Maybe The All Lied/Spun" --Previous Message--
71.52.44.62
: OK. I realize we’re at an impasse, but I
: appreciate your position. You’re one of the
: few people that I can disagree with and take
: seriously on forums like these.
:
: I agree with you the
: ‘Plame-recommended-Wilson’ crap is a
: non-issue. And even though I DO think I
: could make several cases that Wilson lied,
: that’s not really important either – at
: least not in the long run. And I realize
: you can make equally convincing stories that
: the Bushies lied. Wilson ‘lied’ about some
: things and the Bush administration ’lied’
: about some things. Probably most of the
: lies were really spin to build a case so
: that you and I would argue instead of agree
: on what’s really going on and act on our
: agreements.
:
: My take is that Wilson’s visit really meant
: nothing – after all, his ‘agenda’ if there
: was one was to prove there was no effort on
: Iraq’s part to buy more uranium from Niger.
: And of course you can’t prove a negative.
: The Senate Intel Committee said his report
: changed nobody’s minds and I think it’s safe
: to say that goes for the CIA and the State
: Department. One believed in it and the
: other didn’t before Wilson’s report, and
: nothing change afterwards.
:
: But you’ve made me review a lot of material
: and I can certainly admit there was much
: mishandling on the part of the Bushies.
: First, of course they oversold the WMD
: position – I may be a partisan but I’m not
: brain dead (yet). However, I think that was
: a strategic mistake on their part based on
: the ‘slam dunk’ intelligence and the
: realization that that was the only approach
: the UN might support. And I’ll agree they
: had a preconceived inclination to go after
: Saddam or another enemy in the Middle East.
: I think the real reason for the war in Iraq
: was to push either Iraq or Iran towards
: democracy (or representative gov’t if you
: will) and to establish permanent bases in
: one of those countries to protect our oil
: interests (read ‘economy’) and I think
: that’s a sound decision. I know this may be
: a real sticking point in our reaching an
: agreement. Maybe this is what you mean when
: you say ‘military industrial complex’ but
: I’m pretty sure you mean something much more
: sinister. While I respect your opinion, I’m
: not prepared to go there with you. Yet.
: But I’ll try and keep an open mind because I
: won’t deny it’s a plausible possibility in
: the minds of some in that arena.
:
: I think the Bush administration (or
: many/most of those dreaded neo-cons)
: realized this is a critical time in the
: (re)formation of the Middle East. They were
: foolish in their hackneyed justification of
: moving on Saddam, but not foolish in overall
: strategy. Further, the Wilson/Plame issue
: is all foolishness – Wilson went very public
: with little to say so they tried to shut him
: down, which is a reasonable thing to do. I
: don’t think they ‘outed’ Plame for revenge;
: rather they found a weakness in her memos
: recommending her husband for the trip so
: they made that public. The fact that she
: may or may not have been covert never
: entered anyone’s thoughts. Maybe that
: makes me naïve, but that seems like the
: simplest story to me. They meant to
: slander Plame/Wilson, not to out a covert
: CIA agent.
:
: I preferred to post this here, because I
: could just hear chuck and hummy screaming
: for a month that I ‘admitted Bush lied.’ I
: really don’t believe he did – but he was
: wrong about the WMD and that can’t be
: denied. So my position is we made the right
: decisions for the wrong reasons.
:
: I hope you’re wrong about the
: military/industrial complex. That would
: really depress me. But I’m not ruling it
: out and part of the reason is you make me
: question what I read and choose to believe.
: Keep up the good work and don’t ever turn
: into one of those screaming
: chuck/moochie/gerengs no matter how the
: ‘opposition’ (like me) frustrates you. You
: really do make a difference by stating your
: position intelligently. I hope to do the
: same on occasion.
:
:
I am proud of you. Bush lied and they died.
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