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Can you ID this bike?

Posted by Brickboy <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Brickboy' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2023, 5:29 pm

A crashed ME109 in France. Looks like American servicemen to me but can you recognise the bike some of then arrived on?

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Posted by Expat Stu <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Expat+Stu' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2023, 5:53 pm, in reply to "Can you ID this bike?"

Yes it is Hans' bike!

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Posted by Bikershark <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Bikershark' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2023, 5:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Can you ID this bike?"

More likely to be Chuck’s!

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Posted by Brickboy <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Brickboy' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 7, 2023, 6:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Can you ID this bike?"

Honestly, you lot!!

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Posted by Nigel B <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Nigel+B' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 8, 2023, 12:02 pm, in reply to "Can you ID this bike?"

A crashed ME109 in France.

A crashed BF109 in France. The BF109 was the product of the Bayerische Flugzeugwerke & retained it's "BF" designation thoughout. Only aircraft produced after the company became Messerschmitt in 1938 were designated "ME".

Given the presence of American servicemen, if it is in Fance this would date it post June 1944, by which time the BF109 model most likely to be seen would be a G-6. The large spinner & broad propeller blades are from later variant, though as the engine covers are not present (or damaged), other identifying features such as the enlarged fairings over the engine mounted guns prominent on the G-6 cannot be seen. Could otherwise be a G-10 or K-4, both late war variants & similar to the G-6 but not produced in as large numbers (the G-6 was built in the largest numbers of all variants).

As for the bike, Norton 16H maybe ? Girder forks, a bulge on the primary drive cover over the crankshaft & quite a "full" cylinder compared to BSA models. The photo is reduced size (scanned from a book ? ) - do you have a link to a better copy to try to enlarge that area ?

Nigel B

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Posted by Tonupdave <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Tonupdave' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 8, 2023, 2:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Can you ID this bike?"

A book worth reading Nigel is Spitfire a test pilots story by Jeffory Quill interesting comparison between the German fighters The BF 109 was far superior to anything we had at the beginning as was the FW..a good read and illustration

Tonupdave..T.U.D.

Re: Can you ID this bike?

I think I have Jeffery Quill's book somewhere, Dave.

Another good read on the subject is "The Decisive Duel" by David Isby (ISBN 978-0-349-12365-3) - a comparison between the Spitfire & BF109. The two were developed continuously & when one was developed to gain an advantage the other was then developed further to regain the upper hand. In the process both became heavier & more challenging to operate - not that I have ever had the opportunity to experience either, more is the pity. There is the possibility to have a 2 seater experience in both types, but the cost is eye-watering & my pockets are definately not deep enough !

Arguably the BF109 was the "better" aircraft comapared to the Spitfire - first in service, first in combat, most produced fighter in history, easiest to service, fastest build time (half the time required to build a Spitfire), mount of the highest scoring pilots & last in service.

But other opinions are available !

Nigel B.

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Quill says nearly all marks of the Spit were longitudinally unstable only the late marks were acceptable the funny thing he makes no mention of the Seafires problems with the weakness of the wing as in the book They flew Seafires Maz' cousin flew them in the Pacific warfare and they lost a lot of aircraft through the wing breaking up under load..

Tonupdave..T.U.D.

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Posted by MadMike <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=MadMike' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 8, 2023, 4:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Can you ID this bike?"

Aha, that would explain how they won the Battle of Britain.

Far superior plane, far greater numbers of planes, greater firepower in each plane, greater mechanical reliability, greater numbers of far superior pilots. How could they not win? We were out gunned, outflows and outnumbered, I bet log Goebbels will pop in and explain it all to us.

Other opinions may be available but this one is always correct.

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Mike it's known that the Hurricane actually scored higher than the Spit in the battle of Britain there were more Hurricanes than Spits the government at the time were more interested in manufacturing And development of bombers the Spit was virtually private later it became competitive..

Tonupdave..T.U.D.

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Aha, that would explain how they won the Battle of Britain.

Goering & Hitler contributed greatly to our coming out ahead in the BoB, not least by starting it in the first place.

More to winning a battle than hardware & greater numbers - ask Vladimir about that.

Nigel B.

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Posted by Will <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Will' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 8, 2023, 10:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Can you ID this bike?"

Lets not forget the advantage of home territory during the BoB = The Luftwaffe had to fly to here thereby reducing the fuel time they had available to engage the RAF. We also had the advantage of radar and anti-aircraft guns. Any RAF pilots who had to bale out stood a good chance of being able to rejoin the battle while Luftwaffe pilots landing on enemy territory would be taken prisoner.

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Posted by 6TDen <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=6TDen' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 9, 2023, 8:19 am, in reply to "Re: Can you ID this bike?"

All the above Spitfire comments puzzle me. Every pilot I have listened to through the years seems to have been in love with them. Surely some of them would have said what a bloo*y awful aircraft it was, even the ladies that delivered them were in love with them.
Den

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Posted by Tonupdave <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Tonupdave' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 9, 2023, 9:57 am, in reply to "Re: Can you ID this bike?"

Fact is they developed the Spitfire over the war years more than any other aircraft the first 300 delivered to the Airforce were mk 1 this was when the battle of Britain was at its height it was mostly Hurricanes even up to the latest Mks it was never perfect compared to the various mks of the 109 or Fw 190 visibility was bad no rear view so mirror was added view to the side were trough distorted perspex ..armament was poor by standards Brownings against cannons ...the later aircraft were a lot better ..

Tonupdave..T.U.D.

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Posted by Tonupdave <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Tonupdave' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 9, 2023, 9:09 am, in reply to "Re: Can you ID this bike?"

This information if you read the thread was from the test pilot he tested every mark of Spitfire and every one made as the company made sure every aircraft was flight worthy before delivery..the ME109 would out climb a Spi. Performance was roughly the same on the early spits it also out gunned them as it had cannons against Browning machine guns that couldn't be produced fast enough. Also the the FW and ME had far better visibility for the pilot the Spit had no rear vision and sraight ahead was clear either side of that was distorted....another fact the famous film of fighter pilots being scrambled and then you see spits taking off is properganda.. pilots didn't run with there parachutes they were already in the cockpit with straps spread so the pilot jumped and sat in mechanics doing the straps up
Fact is the Spitfire never won the battle of Britain the Hurricane did this was at the very beginning of the war.later the Spitfire was supreme..

Tonupdave..T.U.D.

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Not disputing the facts Dave, you are far more well read than I am, just confused why every one I have heard talking about them, that actually used them, only talked well of them. At the end of the day it wasn't any particular plane that won but the skill of the young men that flew them and died in them.
Den

Re: Can you ID this bike?

Posted by Beezabryan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Beezabryan' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 9, 2023, 12:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Can you ID this bike?"

I am thankful that I did not have learn German, no matter how it was achieved.

BeezaBryan

He knows not where he's going, For the ocean will decide,
Its not the destination, It's the glory of the ride (Edward Monkton, Zen Dog)

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