Click here to search eBay using an item number or text description...
First outing on a Chinese bike
Posted by Nigel B on November 12, 2024, 12:09 pm
Had to take the Himalayan in for some warranty work yesterday and leave it, so took out one of their demonstrators to kill the time.
Easiest to get out of the line-up was a bike that I have had an idle interest in experiencing for a while - a Voge DS525X. Why the interest ? I have been considering "downsizing" from two bikes (Interceptor 650 + Himalayan 411) to maybe one under 500cc & wanted to see how one of the current crop of such bikes from the current "market disruptors" fared.
The weather was, for a welcome change, bright and sunny, but cold. 6-7 degrees until early afternoon, when it crept up to 9, and I was cool when I arrived at the dealers after a slow 20 mile ride - I tend to forget what chaos the rush hour causes these days with not usually having to travel in it any more. Mrs B. turned up on her Scram 411 shortly after I had signed my life away on the disclaimer form for the Voge & we headed off into the Yorkshire Dales.
In pictures (and stood along side) the Voge appears to be a large bike (particularly for a "500" ) in the "adventure" mould. But this is decepetive - it has a low seat that is narrow towards the tank and wider and flat further back. At 5'9" & 31" inseam I could get both feet flat easier than on the Himalayan & it felt lighter than the Interceptor (though on paper there isn't much between them).
Ergonomics were great for me - this is the first bike I have ridden for a long time where I didn't feel that anything required adjustment to suit me or "jarred" - it just fit. The clutch was very light, the cable operated throttle also & the front brake nicely weighted.
Starting was instant from cold and the first clue to a smaller engine came from the higher-than-I-an-used-to tickover and quick response to the throttle suggesting not a lot of flywheel. Negotiating town traffic took a bit of mental adjustment after the Himalayan, but into the B roads it proved to have light and precise handling, smooth and compliant suspension (set a bit firm for me, but fully adjustable front & rear - the fork adjusters looked identical to Mrs B's last VTR1000) and a suprisingly flexible engine.
The lack of "cubes" really only showed in a lack of tolerance to running to lower revs in higher gears. Fuelling was pretty good, though I only ran it in "Eco" mode not "Sport" as the conditions were not at all "sporty". The only time it felt a bit abrupt was in first gear in traffic, otherwise I could just ride it as I would the Interceptor. The standard fit Metzler Tourance tyres worked well on the cold & on mainly wet roads - no "moments" and a confidence-inspiring feedback.
All was not totaly rosy, though. The engine had a bit of a "raw" feel and various vibrations came though the seat, pegs & bars at different revs. Due to the low-ish mileage on the bike I had been asked to keep it under 5000 revs, though TBQH I didn't feel I would have been using many more anyway. There was a "resonant" patch around 4000 (50-ish in top) and, while the vibes could be felt I didn't get numb digits at all while riding - my hands did feel a bit "tingly" this morning, though. Up to 60 it didn't feel laboured & was flexible enough to be able to vary between 40 and 60 in A road traffic in 6th. On a short stretch of dual carriageway 70 was also fine, though it was starting to feel a bit busy.
By far the most negative aspect was the gearshift - in contrast to all the other controls the shift was stiff and the lever travel longer than expected. For the first several changes from first to second I hit neutral, other up changes had to be "deliberate" and down changes had to fully let the lever re-centre between shifts or multiple downshifts didn't happen.
I did around 120 miles altogether. Mrs B's Scram needed fuel early on, so I put 6 litres in it at the same time (E5 only according to a sticker on the tank - same as the Scram / Himalayan are run on) and the fuel gauge showed much the same on my return as I had set out with. Steady ridng up to the limits, in "Eco" mode, but it didn't seem to be using much. I got off with no aches or pains, suprisingly not cold, as the screen / fairing / hand guards were suprisingly efficient at deflecting the worst of the airflow.
This was a much better bike than I was expecting. Still some aspects to be improved, plus another I have not mentioned - noise. At 98 dBA (according to the VIN plate) it is not "Austrian Tirol" compliant. It was not objectionably noisy, but the Himalayan was noticabley quieter on my return home.
The gearchange action & the noise isssue would stop me buying one, but I think this is the first bike I have ridden that comes out of the showroom ready to use as I want to use a bike - it just "needs" a UK plate. It is "fully loaded" - centre stand, engine bars, 3 piece hard luggage & racks, LeD auxilliary lights, hand guards, adjustable screen all standard equipment - the only noticable item missing is heated grips - and only £6K+OTR. And these issues may already have been addressed by the updated "595" model shown at EICMA.
I know there are concerns raised about the politics of Chinese bikes, spare parts availabilty and resale values, but judging the product on it's merits I was rather shocked by how close it came to what I feel I am looking for at the moment.
I've read reviews of Voge & CF Moto bikes and it sounds as if every year the build quality & performance are significantly improving. The current Voge 800 has all the tech gadgets but is a fraction of the price of a comparable spec Triumph, BMW or KTM. I must admit I'm intrigued and very tempted to try one despite my reservations about after sales support, spares etc.
I have no idea what a Voge is, apart from a possible spelling mistake...Vogue?
However like many others I decided to downsize as even the bikes that I own(ed) ha been getting heavier.
Your narrative is both detailed and relevant to these new order bikes. However I made my decision about which lightweight bike to buy as a replacement on s much more scientific basis. I saw the new Triumph Speed 400 at the factory, did as the sign instructed and sat on it. I liked it, and so I went home, telephoned Triumph Birmingham East and and ordered it. That was in December last year, and it arrived if February. No,test rides for this old biker boy. I have never test ridden any new bike. So now the interesting bit, my own report on the Speed 400.
VERY BLOODY IMPRESSIVE IN EVERY WAY.Other opinions may be available but this one is always correct.
No,test rides for this old biker boy. I have never test ridden any new bike.
Good for you Mike - if that works for you, stick with it.
Sadly I have found with experience that just sitting on a bike in a dealers or at a show isn't a good enough way for me to check suitability. Indeed the bikes that I have not kept very long have with hindsight tended to be the ones that I felt I didn't need (or couldn't get) a test ride on, yet they felt fine in the showroom - I would not have bought them if that had not been the case. Even some that I did do a short test ride on were, on subsequent longer outings, found to be wanting. This tends to get expensive ! A decent test ride ahead of reaching for the checkbook has proven to be more cost effective for methan just taking a punt & hoping for the best.
I have sat on a Triumph 400 in the local dealers. It did not feel to bad from an ergonomics POV at a stand still, in "nornal" clothing. Unfortunately that gave me no clue as to how it rode and there were aspects of it (in particular the inability to fit a centre stand) that reduced my interest to the point that I have yet to get back to the dealer to take them up on their offered test ride. Takes all sorts, I suppose.
Taking the piss out of a manufacture's name you are unfamilair with isn't really big or clever, is it ?
I have been riding for 62 years and in my youth, and long after my youth, test rides simply did not exist so I did what evrybody else did, ordered a bike after seeing it in a showroom or catalogues and when it arrive we learned to ride it, warts and all.
Who is taking the piss out of a manufacturers name? Well I guess you would be justified in doping so for the Benda Napoleonbob250. Yes it's a real name. Guffaws and leaves the roomm........Other opinions may be available but this one is always correct.
Not taking the P but how is the name Voge pronounced, is it Vogue, or Voggy? just askin'.
Not so good at "phonetics" Andy, but here goes :
AFAIK it is "Vohj"
Chalk & cheese as far as the 411 Scram / Himalayan comparison. The ride was probably a bit slower pace than usual for us given the conditions, but still "making reasonable progress" within the posted limts. I was leading and there were times accelerating leaving lower limits that I pulled a bit of a lead, but Mrs B caught up easily enough. Talking over the ride later she said she had not had any issues keeping station. She did say she had the impression that the Voge suspension was working better than the Scram, as she watches to see when I hit bumps etc. to gauge their severity and said the Scram was not responding as well. Biggest difference was that she later said she was mostly cold despite being well layered up, where I was on the cool side of comfortable and didn't get cold until the last 20 miles home on the Him.
Getting back on my Him the most noticable first impressions were that the Him clutch was heavy but the gearshift was very much better - light, positive & short lever travel. Then there was the noise - or lack of it & Mrs B had commeneted that the Voge was noisier when she was in close proximety and when I accelerated. Next was that suspension was no where near as compliant or capable as the Voge & the seat felt narrow and, well, not great really. The seat is the one area of the Himalayan that I am struggling with & I currently have the RE "Touring"seat on ATM, which is firmer & more supportive the the "standard" seat but still not great. Probably look to have the standard seat re-upholstered with a gel pad over the winter then move the Touring seat on. Seat height on the Voge is actually lower than my Him (similar to the Interceptor) & it was easier to get feet down.
Him / Scram performance is what it is - adequate but steady. The Voge is pretty much Interceptor performance in a Himalayan / Scram weight package - maybe have to work it a bit harder to unlock the performance due to the smaller capacity, but noticably more performance at all speeds in all gears. And noticiably vibier !
It was an interesting experience and, as I said, not really what I was expecting.
As you say Him performance is what it is, mine is fine bimbling arouind local A / B roads and back lanes and even the odd longer run.
Seat height on the Him is a bit on the high side, although you can get lowering kits.
Interesting what you say about the Him seat, mine has the OE one on it, and over time it seems to have improved.
For my regular local bimbles of 40 miles or so it is fine, on longer runs I take a break after around 40 / 50 miles, but I find it quite acceptable.Who needs a signature anyway......
I have always had a long ride before buying a new bike using a demonstrator. Lucky i did as the new Triumph Bonneville in its first creation was so lack lustre. The later ones improved a lot though and i would have a 1200. Trouble is, i cant find a new bike that i can change gear on so sticking with the ones i have for the rest of my riding time.
I do like the gear changing on bikes but maybe i will have to change direction to a stepthrough one day. Meanwhile, i can now ride what i have but not this week so out doing some jobs on one in the garage for a bit.
Interesting what you say about the Him seat, mine has the OE one on it, and over time it seems to have improved.
IIRC Andy yours is an early model - mine is a later Euro 5 version and the seats are different.
The standard seat on mine is very softly upholstered & I end up sat on the seat base after a couple of hours. The RE Touring seat is a lot firmer so it doesn't squash down as much, but I have not yet had a longer run on it. The only long run I did with the standard seat (around 240 miles) I used an inexpensive gel seat pad that I got for the Classic 500, which made things a bit more bearable at the expense of a bit of seat height.
On the Classic the seat pad improved the standard seat from a "3 hour" seat to a "5 hour" seat. The standard Himalayan seat is, at best, a "2 hour seat" with the touring version maybe a "3 hour". The standard Interceptor arrangement is a "4 hour" seat - I tried the Touring version on the Interceptor and found that was, at best, a "2 hour" seat ! That went on Ebay after two outings.
40 miles for me is a round trip to either dealer & I don't really count it as a "ride". Shortest normal "ride" is around 80 miles, with the usual " round trip" outings between 150 and 200. When I get a pass-out to stay out somewhere, I generally aim for a "mini tour" covering 250-300 miles a day for 2 or 3 days. After 3 days I need a break to let my hands recover - my deficient hands are the main reason I stopped touring abroad on the bike. I find it easier to do longer distances on the smaller capacity, lower perfomance bikes - still get up to the posted limits, but doing so more sedately takes less out of me.
Mid '80s through to early 2000s, when I wanted to get further within my meagre holiday entitlement, meant 450-600 mile days to start & end the trip. No hope of doing that now, unfortunately.
A query regarding the front brake on your Him - do the pads wipe the full disc area ? Now that the discs have started to mark up on mine, the outer pad is only touching around 75% of the disc & the inner pad probably nearer 65%. Mentioned this while it was in on MOnday & was told it was "normal" for these. The rear disc pads cover the full disc area. I would consider a change to aftermarket pads if these were deeper than the OE to give full disc covereage. Braking at the moment is adequate for the performance, but the front requires a bit more lever pressure than I would like.
The front pads on my Him leave a width of about 8 - 10mm on the inner face where they do not contact the disc, so around 75% contact is about right, and I believe is the norm.
I was recommended to fit some Brembo pads, dont have the spec to hand but they made quite a difference. You do still need a lot of pressure on the lever to stop in a hurry, but not as much as with the OE pads. The Brembos are also a lot better in the wet.
Same contact area with the Brembos by the way.
Rear pads make 100% contact and the OE pads do a great job, you can lock up the rear wheel and make the ABS kick in quite easily.
I have seen some articles on an alternative front calipers for the Him, but cannot recall where I saw it.
Back to the seat, a "2 hour" seat is about right.Who needs a signature anyway......
on November 12, 2024, 12:09 pm
