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KTM
Posted by geoff the bonnie on November 28, 2024, 9:47 pm
?si=mgwpA7O2jjG91RkP
Re: KTM
Posted by Leon Novello on November 28, 2024, 10:43 pm, in reply to "KTM"
I think these things happen when they build ugly motorcycles.Leon Novello
Re: KTM
Posted by Andy C on November 28, 2024, 11:04 pm, in reply to "Re: KTM"
Who needs a signature anyway......
Re: KTM
Posted by Will on November 28, 2024, 11:05 pm, in reply to "KTM"
This is almost old news. The story has been bubbling away for months. I suspect KTM will survive but not in its current form. Their Chinese partners CF Moto & their biggest share owners the Indian company Bajaj are likely to bail them out. They will probably sell off (or mothball) their 3 subsidiaries GasGas, Husqvarna & MV Agusta and the KTM Moto GP team may well be wound up. It remains to be seen if their customers stay loyal. Personally I won't be buying another but I made that decision about 3 years ago. And I dread to think what it will do to the value of used KTMs. I guess I'm "lucky" to have taken a huge depreciation hit already.
Re: KTM
Posted by geoff the bonnie on November 29, 2024, 6:58 am, in reply to "Re: KTM"
MV and Husqvarna did have displays at Motorcycle live that i saw. I cant remember seeing KTM but they might have been there. Maybe there are just too many makers now as the |Chinese begin a lot of selling
Re: KTM
Posted by MadMike on November 29, 2024, 9:13 am, in reply to "Re: KTM"
I would suggest a reading of Wikipedia to establish the history, size and ownership of KTM. It is up to date with regard to the events of recent days. Administration? Well it is actually Self Administration. A posh form of financial restructuring between all the share awning parties?Other opinions may be available but this one is always correct.
Re: KTM
Posted by Nigel B on November 29, 2024, 10:46 pm, in reply to "Re: KTM"
Well it is actually Self Administration.
Seems like the situation for KTM may be worse than originally suggested and a bit more than just a bit of voluntary restructuring - rather than €500 million deficit it is now being reported today as €2.9 billion owed to 2500 creditors, along with in excess of 100,000 unsold bikes in stock. Suggestions of an injection of around €1 billion required by March to keep afloat, with workers not being paid November's wages.
Nigel B.
Re: KTM
Posted by MadMike on November 30, 2024, 9:34 am, in reply to "Re: KTM"
I also read that report. It is actually not too clear who actually owns what. Despite complex share "selling" on 2021 it is a little difficult to determine which of the co-ownership companies actually owns the whole thing. Najaf? Pierre? KTM? It will be interesting to see who comes out of this with or without any KTM ownership.Other opinions may be available but this one is always correct.
Re: KTM
Posted by Nigel B on November 29, 2024, 10:34 am, in reply to "Re: KTM"
and the KTM Moto GP team may well be wound up
Or taken over by Red Bull and operated alongside their F1 team.
Be difficult for Dorna to operate as before without them - most of the Moto 3 field are KTM bikes, as are the national and Jumior GP "feeder" classes. Moto 2 probably not affected, as the notional KTM teams are the same Triumph engines & Kalex/ Boscoscuro chassis as the rest of the field. Those KTM affiliated teams running WP suspension will be able to revert to Ohlins - assuming they survive.
Seems a lot of bad decisions taken by what appears to be an arrogant and out-of-touch management, plus their divisive one-trick-pony Kiska styling, poor handling of the camshaft issue, dubious sales practices (pay an arm and a leg more after 30 days or a mileage limit to continue to be able to use features the bikes came with) and an equally dubious reputation for reliabilty (deserved or not - perceptions matter ! ).
Too many poor back-up stories (bikes languishing for months in dealers waiting to get resolutions on warranty claims) - these may be a minority of bikes, but the internet allows these to be broadcast and, as earlier, perception matters - why take the risk on a KTM when there are (probably less expensive) alternatives ? "Keep Throwing Money" or "Keine Tausand Kilometer (not a thousnad kilometers) " epithets for the brand have not materialised without some reason.
The current overstocking due to poor reading of the market, and subsequent deep discounting, have also helped devalue the brand.
The straw that boke them appears to be the electric pushbike sector, which KTM are also big in - again a mis-reading of the market, thinking that a surge in sales during Covid would be maintained afterwards so a big ramp-up of production. Post Covid e-bike sales plummeted so yet more unsold expensive inventory (KTM pushbikes are top-end pricing, like their motorcycles).
I guess the next 90 days afforded by the administration process will reveal the nature of their demise, or maybe smaller survival. Whether or not they survive long-term depends if they learn from their past mistakes.
Nigel B.
Re: KTM
Posted by Will on November 29, 2024, 11:36 am, in reply to "Re: KTM"
Nigel, I think you've pretty much hit all the nails on the head there! If Red Bull want to take on the MotoGP team they will have to sink a lot of money into KTM as a whole. They can't just cherry pick the race team, and would an energy drinks company want to diversify into manufacturing bikes? My own gripe with KTM is the way they heavily discount stock in dealers and so immediately & vastly exacerbating the depreciation of bikes customers have only recently bought at full price.
Re: KTM
Posted by Nigel B on November 29, 2024, 1:23 pm, in reply to "Re: KTM"
They can't just cherry pick the race team,
Why not ?
Red Bull didn't get into retail car manufacturing when they started F1 racing. I would expect that the road racing division of KTM is a stand-alone business unit within the company whose "products" bear little or no resemblance to the off road competion bikes or road going models.
As RB sponsor the off road factory competition department as well as the road racing department, they could choose to take on just the competition departments alone, leaving what remains of KTM to rebuild in a more retail business focussed way. RB could get some revenue for the supply / leasing / support of bikes or engines for the MotoGP series in the way that Honda and Triumph do to help offset the costs - though the sale of fizzy sugary drinks does appear to be exceptionally profitable given the amount of money that they liberally splash about various activities - running the Hangar 7 classic aircraft fleet isn't going to be cheap !
on November 28, 2024, 9:47 pm
