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Running In?

Posted by laverdabru on February 21, 2025, 7:46 pm

Out on the Honda Innova 125, not nice weather! At 37k, it has just had a top end refresh. First oversize, new valves, cam chain & tensioner assembly & so on.
Nice not to see a '70's style 2T smoke screen in the mirrors, & it rustles rather than slaps/rattles.
Ages since I ran in a rebuilt or new engine (1980's?). My thoughts are to take it easy, not labouring the motor for 3-500 miles, then do an oil change. And of course check valve clearances etc.

Anything I've forgotten?

Bru

Re: Running In?

Posted by geoff the bonnie on February 21, 2025, 10:18 pm, in reply to "Running In?"

Sounds about right. Plenty of up and down on the throttle so accelerate then let it overun downhill or on the flat.
On the Chinese scooters i fitted new cylinders, they just rode the nuts off them included on one was a new crank and cam chain. Surprised they do not supply a cylinder kit and many sellers on ebay advertise 150cc kits for some bikes.
Those little 50cc scoots are hard to break but these 3 Grandchildren did a good job breaking parts.
The other Grandson on the Yamaha 125 had no engine problems in 5 years and mileage at 20,000. Bought for £1000 and sold 5 years later at £1000 and bought a car. I had a few rides on it but its top speed is about 58mph carrying my 16 stones. Very well built engine but cycle parts rusted easily in our salt laden air.
It used 1 rear tyre,a chain and sprocket set, 2 ignition locks and a new front mudguard following a fall, 1 complete exhaust system

Re: Running In?

Posted by Will on February 21, 2025, 10:49 pm, in reply to "Running In?"

Did it previously have a very had life? I'm surprised a Honda engine needed a such refresh at only 37k miles. I always thought they were good for huge mileages.....or is that just me naively believing Honda hype?

Re: Running In?

Posted by laverdabru on February 21, 2025, 11:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Running In?"

It's had a cosseted life, with both myself & the PO. I bought it with 9k on the clock & FSH about a decade back. Oil changes done twice as often as recommended etc. In the '70's Honda 125's often needed rebuilds due to cam issues, IIRC. Used to see a lot of those as an RAC/ACU instructor. We replaced them with Suzuki Bloops or A100's, I think. A lot of the instructors had 400/4's, they also had issues. Cam & primary chains, chiefly.
Things of course have changed since then. But I don't think Hondas are any more reliable than other Japanese bikes.

Re: Running In?

Posted by Stuart on February 22, 2025, 3:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Running In?"

Hi Will,

>>Did it previously have a very had life?
>It's had a cosseted life

Then something else seriously wrong if it needed a rebore and new valves at 37 Kmiles - hell, old Britbike top ends last longer ...

I had several Hondas in the 1970's and 1980's, especially when I was dispatching, still got one now, pistons 'n' bores did starship mileages, even before they were water-cooled.

"cam issues" nothing to do with bores 'n' rings, mainly due to Honda's habit of running the cam(s) directly in the head, coupled with many owners (especially those of 125's?) thinking oil-change mileages were only advisory ...

Otoh, the CD range, all bearings and bushes, infinitely rebuildable cheaply.

While Honda were crap at camchain tensioners, so were owners and mechanics - I remember camchains still "adjusted" when the engine was running, after Honda changed to camchains adjusted with the engine not running ...;

owners and mechanics not realising when the tensioner was stuck, and Honda UK not letting on it was a problem ...

Bike ridden in all weathers, camchain tensioner just behind the front wheel (what could possibly go wrong?), all (not just Honda) certainly of that era, wise to give 'em a little tap when adjusting, to overcome any reluctance to "do what it says on the tin".

Ime, certainly Honda ridden in all weathers in GB, oil changes done at spec'd intervals, the electrics give serious trouble lo-on-ng before bores 'n' rings.

Regards,

Re: Running In?

Posted by A65Bill on February 25, 2025, 11:08 am, in reply to "Re: Running In?"

My previously enjoyed 2002 CB500SY had the cam chain tensioner behind the cylinder. It rattled when I bought it & even after I'd done a couple of low miles oil changes. A new one was about £50, so I made the "special tool" from a bit of an old steel plastering trowel & was amazed at the crude design.
It was easy enough to clean & I fitted a new spring from a box of springs bought at the NEC & polished the plunger. The slot allowing oil onto the plunger was supposed to face downwards to catch splash, but I fitted it topmost to retain oil.
50k miles on fully synthetic & 5k oil and filter changes and more than a reasonable use of 10k rpm, almost no short runs below 100 miles and it was still silent when I sold it.
Worst thing was the rear caliper sliding in the alloy carrier - I made brass bushes and oversize s/s pins to cure that - and Brembo pad springs available only by special order from Honda Belgium, via Lings (who were very good). Brembo suggested buying new calipers!
I fitted one of the last Motad full s/s exhaust systems, complete with the joy of extracting the original studs from the head.
One of the best bikes I've ever owned, but only an indicated speed of 119.5 mph available, even down the Mountain.

Re: Running In?

Posted by Stuart on February 25, 2025, 12:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Running In?"

Hi Bill,

>Worst thing was the rear caliper sliding in the alloy carrier - I made brass bushes and oversize s/s pins to cure that

Check that, albeit front calipers on my various Hondas.

I can also confirm Honda still can't do sliding calipers - I bought a 2004 Accord estate just before I moved to Scotland in 2014 - sliding calipers on the rear. By the following winter, one jammed caliper made the disc so hot, clouds of steam when I chucked handfuls of snow on it.

Owners' club forum recommended rear caliper strip-'n'-clean at every (6-Kmile) service,

but did stop the problem recurring. If home bodgers can work out the simple solution, makes you wonder why Honda still have this long-time blind spot about fixing the problem?

Otoh, the Accord's camchain 'n' tensioner were good as gold; iirc Honda even said no necessity to change the chain.

Certainly I didn't have any problems with it 'til the worn-out clutch scrapped the car

at a bit over 200 Kmiles.

Regards,

Re: Running In?

Posted by Leon Novello on February 22, 2025, 12:31 am, in reply to "Running In?"

Other opinions believe in giving it HEAPS, and not being gentle with it; this being the best way to run in an engine.

Leon Novello

Re: Running In?

Posted by Andy C on February 22, 2025, 7:43 am, in reply to "Running In?"

I think the main thing is not to let it labour, just keep it spinning nice and freely.

I was always told it is best to progressively increase the revs over 500 miles or so.

Given the low oil capacity of the 125 I would probably give it an oil change after the first 500.

Who needs a signature anyway......

Re: Running In?

Posted by Stuart on February 22, 2025, 3:33 pm, in reply to "Running In?"

Hi Bru,

>My thoughts are to take it easy, not labouring the motor for 3-500 miles

>Other opinions believe in giving it HEAPS, and not being gentle with it

>I think the main thing is not to let it labour, just keep it spinning nice and freely.
>I was always told it is best to progressively increase the revs over 500 miles or so.

Depends on the new bore surface and ring material:-

. Old Britbikes have a relatively-coarse bore surface, for which grey iron rings are the best - modern running-in advice is "Ride It Like You Stole It", rings should be fully-sealing on bore well before 500 miles.

. Modern-bike bores should have a much smoother surface, rings made out of a material to suit; rebore done to original Honda spec., might not even need "running in"? What was original Honda advice for a new engine?

Hth.

Regards,

Re: Running In?

Posted by laverdabru on February 22, 2025, 6:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Running In?"

Hi, Stuart,

What, RTFM?

Once I'd found it, recommended 300 miles running in. So I'll go with an oil change around then, see how it feels.

Bru

Re: Running In?

Posted by Andy C on February 22, 2025, 7:16 pm, in reply to "Re: Running In?"

"Ride It Like You Stole It"

That is the advice of the Kawa Triple experts - there is no running in period according to them.

Who needs a signature anyway......

Re: Running In?

Posted by geoff the bonnie on February 22, 2025, 10:27 pm, in reply to "Re: Running In?"

Given many 125cc bikes use just 1 litre of oil, it might be getting a hard life with a fairly high revving engine. On My Grandsons Yamaha, i used the highest quality synthetic oil at about 14 pound a litre due to his lack of any bike knowledge. I used to oil change it every time he turned up at my house. There is a very crude oil filter on those 125s. In 10000 miles he neglected it, at least the engine was still vey quiet with no faults.
I think high quality oil would be a good recipe on a small 125 capable of near 60 mph

Re: Running In?

Posted by laverdabru on February 22, 2025, 10:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Running In?"

Good thoughts there, Geoff. I do use a quality oil, changed at least as twice as often as recommended, & have done since I've owned it, 10 years & 28k.
I don't think the engine is high revving - it's basically an oversized Cub.
It started smoking & using oil. Did a compression test, it was under half what it should have been. The head/valves were quite carbonised, apparently.
Bru.

Re: Running In?

Posted by Stuart on February 23, 2025, 9:05 am, in reply to "Re: Running In?"

Hi,

>Given many 125cc bikes use just 1 litre of oil, it might be getting a hard life with a fairly high revving engine. On My Grandsons Yamaha, i used the highest quality synthetic oil at about 14 pound a litre due to his lack of any bike knowledge. I used to oil change it every time he turned up at my house. There is a very crude oil filter on those 125s.

One of the Hondas I owned when dispatching was a dearly beloved 250RS single. It followed a (late 1970's) Dream twin - the twin had 2.5 litres of 10W40 and a proper full-flow filter, the RS had 1 (or 1.5?) litres of 10W40 and a tea strainer "filter" about the size of a postage stamp ... Both did the usual Japanese thing of swilling the engine oil 'round the gearbox but, in addition, the RS had a roller big-end. Honda "recommended" the same 1750-mile oil-'n'-filter change intervals for both ...

>high quality oil would be a good recipe

I used the best I could afford and changed it every 1000 miles but sadly no synthetic available then.

Also I got the bike with over 65K on the clock and a broken speedo. cable

so iirc I only got the bike to about 75 Kmiles before the big-end rumbling became too loud. Sold it to a mate with more expertise of fixing old Britbikes with roller big-ends on built-up cranks. He fixed it in the end but he said Honda had put in several gotchas to deter all but the most bloody-minded from fixing 'em.

Amazing any 250RS have survived ...

Regards,

Re: Running In?

Posted by geoff the bonnie on February 23, 2025, 10:51 am, in reply to "Re: Running In?"

I doubt that engine will wear out now in your ownership. So far, in all my time with cars and bikes, i have never needed a rebore. Maybe its because when buying old ones, they are good at the beginning of my ownership.
Best long term ownership was a Ford Escort oil changed at 2500 miles from new. At 100,000 miles, that engine showed virtually no wear but did need new valve caps due to rubber deteriorating and they fell away. Cars i have now are only with me 21,000 miles so nothing at all to do.
Not working dropped my miles down a lot so even when i was doing over 30,000 miles in a car, not even tyres were needed.

Re: Running In?

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