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Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by Nigel B <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Nigel+B' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 5, 2025, 4:49 pm

I have finally got around to sorting out my MZ TS250/1 - just a couple of things to check now & it should be ready for a trip to the MoT station.

It was last on the road in 2016, but had only done "distance to test & back" for 3 years before that due to a persistant oil leak from the gearlever where it exits the clutch cover. The seal here is just an O-ring but is a PITA to replace, hence not having much enthusiasm for the job. Unfortunately the new O-ring hasn't totally cured the leak, as the gearchange shaft is slightly corroded where the O-ring sits, but it is now manageable. Changing the gearchange shaft means splitting the engine & I am currently investigating the fitment of a narrow conventional oil seal to the outside of the casing (which will require a trip to the milling machine for the casing). One of the few areas where MZ cheap-skated on design, unfortunately.

Anyway, it is almost ready to MoT again & I was debating whether or not to change it to "Historic" status to remove the need for tax & MoT going forward. I can't see any downsides to doing this - at the moment.

But I instictively don't trust "The Powers That Be" to give something for nothing and do wonder, longer term, if restrictions on usesage of "Historic" registered vehicles might be brought in. This wouldn't be the end of the world, as I have other bikes on SORN that are of similar age (2 are the same model) that could be rebuilt and kept on standard registration if required.

Any thoughts ?

The petroil mix in the tank must be at least 10 years old, maybe up to 12. But it still smells like petrol & the bike started after 5 or 6 kicks (kicked back on the 3rd kick) and seems to be running fine. Maybe petrol then was better than now, or Putoline premium full synthetic 2T oil acts as a very effective fuel preservative ? No carb cleaning prior to starting, but I did run the float bowl dry before putting away last time I rode it.

Nigel B.

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by geoff the bonnie <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=geoff+the+bonnie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 5, 2025, 5:15 pm, in reply to "Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

I certainly would not MOT and tax my historic vehicles. Why would you waste the money ?

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by Lannis <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Lannis' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 5, 2025, 5:59 pm, in reply to "Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

The day any of my 7 bikes, 4 cars, and truck turns 25 years old, it goes on "antique" status.

$100/year insurance, no safety inspections, no property tax, permanent tags for $15 ... I have to leave ONE on full road status; that's my 2014 Triumph.

Otherwise, historic all the way.

Lannis

I don't take health advice from people who think the world is overpopulated.

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by Brickboy <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Brickboy' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 5, 2025, 8:32 pm, in reply to "Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

Do it Nigel. I've done it many times and look forward to doing it with my Mille (if it lasts 5yrs lol!) .

Upside: agreed value insurance with very low excess. Downside, you don't earn NCB - but your insurance is probably significantly cheaper.

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by geoff the bonnie <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=geoff+the+bonnie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 5, 2025, 10:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

These low mileage historic bikes only cost about 50 odd pounds to insure on limited mileage as long as garaged at night.
I really like bikes that i dont have to MOT and wait around on for 1 hour.

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by martin in the USA <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=martin+in+the+USA' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 6, 2025, 12:20 pm, in reply to "Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

In my state we have this "downside".

...Historic vehicles may be driven to and from repair facilities one hundred miles from the vehicle's location, and in addition may be driven up to one thousand miles per year for personal use. The owner of the historic vehicle shall be responsible for keeping a log of the miles driven for personal use each calendar year. Such log must be kept in the historic vehicle when the vehicle is driven on any state road. The historic vehicle's mileage driven in an antique auto tour or event and mileage driven to and from such a tour or event shall not be considered mileage driven for the purpose of the mileage limitations in this section....

I don't know if your location has this requirement.

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by Lannis <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Lannis' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 6, 2025, 1:01 pm, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

In Virginia there's no annual mileage limit, but you're not supposed to be more than 250 miles from home, with some "restrictions" which are easy to plead.

I've never been challenged on it. Of course, if I were arsing around and the bronze needed a reason to stop me, that would be a good excuse.

Lannis

I don't take health advice from people who think the world is overpopulated.

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by Jimbo <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Jimbo' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 6, 2025, 6:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

Going back some years in California, didn't they propose/bring in a law that custom car builders were allowed to build just one car in their lifetime? They wanted to ban them entirely but this was a sop to the pro-car lobby votes. Similarly to the "annual mileage limit, "mileage log thing" etc above, who is ever going to police that nonsense?

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by Lannis <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Lannis' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 6, 2025, 8:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

Nobody polices the mileage limits, unless you get into some kind of other trouble first.

In Virginia, they just about don't police "State Inspections" any more (similar to the UK "MOT"

. I've been stopped for license checks on my car and motorcycles, which were displaying out-of-date stickers, and the police didn't even notice.

Lannis

I don't take health advice from people who think the world is overpopulated.

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by geoff the bonnie <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=geoff+the+bonnie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 6, 2025, 9:11 pm, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

No mileage limits here and that is why a lot of people are buying older cars and refurbishing as a daily use car. Some cars here have very high vehicle tax so it worth doing.

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by Greeves Rider <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Greeves+Rider' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 6, 2025, 11:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

Motorcycles younger that 40 years in UK are taxed as follows:
over 600cc £121 per year,
401 to 600cc £87
151 to 400cc £57
up to 150cc £26.

Cars are based on emissions and range from £10 to £5490 depending upon age and emissions
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/67d1b940a6d78876a3fb0a67/v149-rates-of-vehicle-tax-for-cars-motorcycles-light-goods-vehicles-and-private-light-goods-vehicles-april-2025.pdf

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by geoff the bonnie <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=geoff+the+bonnie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 7, 2025, 9:14 am, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

The vehicle tax on new Range Rovers is huge but i suppose if you are able to spend 100k to buy one, its small change

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by geoff the bonnie <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=geoff+the+bonnie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 7, 2025, 9:23 am, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

Its interesting to see that cars over 40k get a charge of 620 pounds for the first 5 years even if hybrid and low emissions. My car was 38 k so avoids this burden and my next car may well be under 40k. The previous Volvo was about 46k so did have that extra fee and that makes it a very expensive car to run at 36mpg.
I am liking the 60mpg plus i can get from a hybrid and the low taxation so probably stick with the system of buying under 40k for now. Next year, i go shopping for a new car but no idea what yet as there are many new models coming out but i will still stick with either a petrol only or petrol hybrid with emissions of under 110. Maybe a Peugeot 2008 GT hybrid

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by Brickboy <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Brickboy' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 9, 2025, 4:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

My car was £2500. I love it! I've not owned a car that cost more than any of the bikes in my garage for as long as I can remember.

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by Nigel B <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Nigel+B' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 7, 2025, 12:51 pm, in reply to "Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

Thanks for all the replies.

The US approachs detailed by Martin & Lannis are the way I feel things will eventually go over here - you may be able to keep using older vehicles, but with restrictions aimed at making their use as everyday vehicles unviable (low mileage limits, log books, geo-fencing, day-time use only etc.)

An article in a classic car magazine recently higlighted DVLA "surprise" at the lack of take-up of "Historic" registration. I wonder at what point there will be an automatic changeover of status 40 years after first registration ?

Is that far fetched / paranoia ? I am not so sure, based on a recent experience getting a replacement V5C for my MZ ISDT replica. I applied for this last month with the normal tax class of "bicycle", but the V5C came back as "Historic" despite the bike not having a valid MoT or having been on the road for over 15 years.

Germany also has a couple of routes to a "Historic" regiatration for vehicles over 30 years old. One - the "H" registration - is just for the vehicle concerned and allows use of older vehicles at reduced tax cost & useage within Low Emission Zones without meeting the current criteria. But it appears that this scheme may be under threat due to large numbers of old vehicles being re-registered "Historic" to reduce operating costs for users & "not being what the scheme was initially envisaged for ". The other scheme - the "07" registration plate - very much constrains useage (to just short distance visits to repairers and exclusively classic vehicle events - just going out to fill up or go for a ride is not allowed) and requires the filling in and carrying of a logbook detailing the reason for each use. This registration plate can be applied to more than one vehicle, so is primarily aimed at collectors with larger fleets. Access to either scheme is beurocratic & involves up-front and ongoing costs - also in the case of the "07" plate having and keeping a clean licence !

Our Govenment have show a willingness to change vehicle taxation on a whim - see the recent change from no tax to normal tax rates for electric vehicles as an example. So at what point does the "Net Zero" lobby get useage of "Historic" registered vehicles constrained (they are already lobbying to get what they call as "older more polluting" vehicles off the roads) in the name of "Saving the Planet" despite there actually being no appreciable benefits ?

Still undeceided.

Nigel B.

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by Brickboy <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Brickboy' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 7, 2025, 4:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

Nigel, I used to wonder, and even anticipated this. Australia is also pretty strict I think.

However, it hasn't happened, there's no sign it will so I think you might as well carry on and save money, get better insurance and not have to go to the MoT station.

All sorts of things could happen. If a miracle comes to pass and EVs stay there won't be much petrol at affordable prices. In the meantime I think: enjoy your cheaper to run classic and try not to anticipate politicians. Just look over the pond to see how mad they can be - no-one can anticipate what they'll do next so don't overthink it if you can manage not to.

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by Lannis <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Lannis' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 7, 2025, 7:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

Funny, isn't it? We consider YOUR politicians the peak of self-destructive madness, and a morality play on how to destroy a great country.

So maybe don't use any of them as an example and just do the right thing.

Lannis

I don't take health advice from people who think the world is overpopulated.

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by geoff the bonnie <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=geoff+the+bonnie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 7, 2025, 9:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

It pleases me that all i have to do on my historic vehicles is insure them plus 5 minutes to apply for the free tax. The historic status of old bikes when it was 25 years made them more desirable and they cost more to buy.
My old Honda 750 i let the boy have is now historic and a very nice bike for modern riding being a 750 DOHC bike with a top speed of about 110 mph. I once rode it for a long journey to clear the carbs out at 10,000 rpm in a lower gear and it cleaned them out. 40 year old bikes are far from slow or unreliable

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by Lannis <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Lannis' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 8, 2025, 12:47 am, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

My GT750 Suzuki Water Buffalo was the equal in smoothness, braking, roadability, and ease of maintenance of any bike I can buy today.

Didn't have any modern gewgaws but I don't care about those anyway.....

Lannis

I don't take health advice from people who think the world is overpopulated.

Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?

Posted by Jimbo <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/classicbikemart/info/user=Jimbo' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on June 9, 2025, 9:35 am, in reply to "Re: Any downsides to going "Historic" ?"

Funny, isn't it? We consider YOUR politicians the peak of self-destructive madness, and a morality play on how to destroy a great country.

You don't need to bother doing that....we can do it perfectly well ourselves.
Sadly it's not limited to the UK, the whole of Western Europe is similarly (or worse) afflicted. Paris anyone?

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