Back to the subject of surfcasting with braid. I've read all the "posts" but have never been able to apply it to me. I've just bought a 14' Okuma X factor, and wonder if this would be suitable for braid. I usually use 6kg mono. but never had a rod as light and flexible as the Okuma.
Re: Braid
Posted by whippersnapper on 19/2/2014, 8:03 pm, in reply to "Braid"
All braids are different. The good ones cost heaps and the difference in fishing on a surf rod aren't that drastic.(shock leader still does a majority of the work)
I would suggest sticking with mono and spend the extra money on some more important things (like tackle or beer).
Re: Braid
Posted by Gary T on 19/2/2014, 10:56 pm, in reply to "Braid"
If your rod is light and flexible it will suit braid to a tee,you can use a smaller reel to get the balance of the set up right as well
Re: Braid
Posted by Steg on 20/2/2014, 9:08 am, in reply to "Re: Braid"
I agree with Gary T. It's a good thing if the rod is bendy. You want some flex to make up for the braid not being stretchy. They used to say you should have silicon carbide guides, but I don't hear this so much now; maybe guides are usually hard ceramic now. You don't really hear all that much about fishing with braid in the surf - and it should have some real advantages. One of them is you can downsize your gear a bit. You can use a smaller reel(like what's happening everywhere else in fishing: people moving to lighter gear still very strong). One disadvantage might be the need to have a shock leader - but you are probably used to using one anyway. My knot doesn't always pass through the guides very nicely.
Re: Braid
Posted by Hangler on 20/2/2014, 2:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Braid"
I have fished with braid but at that time I wasn't really up with the play with knots for joining a nylon shock leader to the lighter and much thinner, braid. Now I have plenty of experience and I would willingly give braid another shot. There are a few unusual advantages, one being it can cut through weed you may have picked up on the main line, this doesn't happen with nylon. I would also suggest you throttle back on your first few cast, this to get the feel of how well the rod and the line work together. Another advantage, and this can be big, is you can reduce the size of the sinker, again this will depend on your rod and how well the two work together. I also have a fouteen foot Okuma rod and I have drilled out the wooden spud and replaced this with a spud that is 30cms longer. This gives me a huge clearance of broken wave tops when in the rod rest. This is coupled with an Okuma open face reel, for the life of me I can't recall the name of either.
At present on my other two rods I use mono in the 4 kilo range. This is ample for the size fish we hook whilst general fishing on Hawke's Bay beaches. It is quite rare to hook into a large fish, and a snapper's teeth only impacts on the hook length not the line. I have landed several Rays up to 64lb on 9lb line, the only time this proves difficult is if there is a big swell to negotiate or large breakers to get the fish through. Most open face reels come with a spare spool so this need not be an issue, if the sea is rough use the other spool with heavier line.
Re: Braid
Posted by fringsy on 20/2/2014, 7:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Braid"
I've used braid more often than not for the last 10 years with mixed results. Had a couple of 13'6 x factors but always thought they were a bit too light when I wanted a bigger weight, windy days, big baits etc. Still got them, unbreakable, touch wood. Bought a Veritas and put tapered line on Okuma Latitude reel with great results but I wanted more distance still. Loaded reel with GOOD braid, Sufix I think, $60 for 300m. Tapered leader, 5oz sinker. I estimate I am casting 40m. further than ever before. Spend up if you can Druid. The Veritas is very different to your Okuma, much stiffer top section. I'm only 70 kilos and I think it suits fishos 80+. Try to buy braid with a smooth finish, good fishing.
Re: Braid
Posted by Rod Walloper on 21/2/2014, 1:09 pm, in reply to "Re: Braid"
I used braid exclusively for about 4 seasons on big penn spinfisher fixed spool reels and kilwell powerplay rods. The braid was an early type with a quite thick coating over it. While it was a bigger diameter than todays powerpro etc it was still pretty thin and because of the coating I was able to do a good knot to the nylon leader (8 meters 60lb black magic tough trace).
The pros...
1/ Fantastic bite indication. When conditions allowed I would hold one rod with a turn of braid wrapped around my hand, rod pointed seaward while I watched the other rod in a beach spike. The faintest touch from a fish on either rod could be picked up. I swear that sometimes I could feel a lemon munching on my crab bait or feel a fish swim into the line. The entertainment factor would keep me fishing longer and harder in the middle of the night.
2/ I would say my hook-up rate from a rod in a rod holder was better with braid. Kilwell QTXs are fairly stiff and combined with a boss breakaway at the other end a fish cannot run far before it runs into solid resistance and hooks itself. (I was generally using gamakatsu circle hooks which I don't strike with anyway)
3/ All the advantages of thin line....not so affected by swells, side currents, side winds and more distance etc.
The cons...
1/ The biggest pain in the butt was line twist. Braid is just not "stiff" enough to "turn" the nylon leader. As a consequence when you hook a ray or any fish that pulls line off the reel the extra twist works its way down the braid to the last few meters of braid above the shock leader and there it stays. Its a competition weekend its 1am in the morning and the fish are biting. You go for the big cast and really put your back into it. You feel/hear a faint "snick" as the braid to leader knot touches the edge of the first guide. There is a millisecond's pause in the line travelling at 100km/h thru the guides and a slight backup in line flying off the spool. There follows a sound like the "crack of doom" - a loop or two of braid has wrapped itself around the first guide. On the positive side your sinker and bait are probably still travelling seaward at 100 km/h but unfortunately they are not attached to your gear. Its 1am you are cold, tired and its time to tie another braid to leader knot - not something I ever liked doing on the beach daylight or not. Anyone thinking of using braid must have a first guide that is designed so that it cannot be "wrapped". (very occasionally it was the next guide up that wrapped) Line twist can cause knots and line tangles in the guides during casting that don't wrap. Often, particularly at night I would not be aware of it until I was winding in. These could be bad enough to warrant cutting the line or putting on a new spool.
2/ Anyone wanting to try using braid should use rods with good flexibility in the tip - rods that you can "wind" a bend into the tip against the weight of the sinker when the rod is in a beach spike. I used kilwell QTXs which I found to be fantastic rods in many respects but they are not flexible enough in a beach spike when using braid. In swelly conditions the breakaway sinkers would break out because of no flex in the braid and not enough flex in the rod tip.
3/ I had to use a shock leader of nylon. 8 meters of 60lb did the trick. I never felt tempted to try casting without it. It was enough of a shock absorber to prevent hooks pulling out of fish and preserving the bait on the hook when going for a big cast. Using a leader means a braid/nylon knot which should not be bulky. I used a form of albright knot but I never liked tying it on the beach in the middle of the night in a Wellington or Wairarapa wind! I subsequently tried this knot with powerpro but found that it tended to slip.You have find a knot that you are confident in. This knot is the weak point in your gear.
All this sounds like braid is more trouble than its worth but I really liked it mostly because of the extreme sensitivity but then I really like actually holding one of my rods if the conditions allow. The trick was to keep on top of the line twist and removing it before it turned round and bit me in the arse. The best way for me was to do a big cast along the beach, cut the leader off and wind in, pinching the line letting it untwist on the beach, then retying the leader. Every 2nd or 3rd time I fished I would do it - a bit of effort but tight tangles of braid are a nightmare.
Use a rod with a flexible tip that has non wrap guides.
Find a good braid/nylon leader knot
Re: Braid
Posted by Phill on 21/2/2014, 8:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Braid" Tackle Tactics
If you are going to use braid the only one to use in my opinion is Daiwa Saltiga . I have been using it for about three or four years on a Okuma Predator 14' love it. The Prevail 14' would be another good rod in my opinion.
on 19/2/2014, 6:52 pm