Hi guys just wondering if the hook up rateis higher using the pulley than other rigs as i have always used running rig and lose a few fish on the first strike.no doubt it may have been discussed before on here.thanks Mal
Hi Mal K, Your question is a good one. Probably the best way of looking for an answer is to closely examine the purpose of their design.
A pulley rig is designed primarily for fishing over foul ground, where snags are a likely problem. When you hook a fish that exceeds the weight of the lead being used, it will help the lead lift over the snags, thereby return to shore and clear any likely problems. Most will admit it can be a pain to carry spares, this because they tangle easily in the tackle bag. I have overcome that problem very easily and if you send me a PM I will send you a picture of an excellent cure.
The running trace is a rig of pure simplicity. It is easy to make, simplicity to rig, and you can simply keep spares in a small ziplock bag. You also have the additional benefit of tying the trace to whatever length you wish, sometimes long, most times reasonably short.
The flapper rig is more for fishing off a wharf and is very popular with beginners. YEM's and small bait fish are usually the target, not really recommended for the surf.
From your question regarding losing fish on the strike I believe the answer is simple: you are striking too soon. If I get a take, regardless of how strong, I will hold the rod and wait for the fish to return to finish its meal. Of course this is not the case if the fish is still pulling line. It is quite amazing the number of times I have heard an angler bemoan, "How could I miss a take as strong as that?" Well it's really quite simple, the fish had taken the bait, not the hook.
Sometimes the wait can be quite some time, I put the rod back in rest but don't stray far from it, the return may take a few minutes. When I fished the Bay of Plenty beaches I quickly learnt the best way to miss a snapper was to strike the first bite. One evening out of exasperation I put the rod back in the rest and muttered to the fish, "Bloodywell get on with it", strangely a hook up followed - I learned my lesson well.
I have been following the advice of a top match angler. He states quite simply, if he gets a bite he will turn his back on the rod and go and pour a cup of tea. The result being as many fish are creatures that shoal, he winds in two fish not one. This is more for smaller fish but I can see it working quite well when gurnard reappear on our beaches.
One rig I am looking forward to trying is the pulley wishbone rig. I already have some of these tied and I can't wait to give them a run. If I get a session or two in before I go to China I will put a report on here.
Thanks hangler just wondering if the breakaway sinker helps set the hooks and that would cause for a higher hook up rate.As i was thinking about using a pulley rig and impact shield.I'll still use running rig old habits hard to change.what hook size I use 4/0 and 5/0 i hear people use 7/0 or 8/0.i liked your video on baiting your anchovies I've being using it for my pilchards thanks
I am pleased the video helped, it is worth all the work to get comments such as that.
For general fishing I use a 4/0 hook but I am not adverse to dropping the size it the bites are on the shy side.
Again, and this is purely a personal point of view, if it's possible I do everything I can to avoid a breakaway sinker, yes I carry them because at times they are required. I have no objections to having a sinker that moves, this way I am covering more ground. Providing the drift is not taking me into foul ground or close to a neighbouring angler, I will always fish for a while letting the end gear do a little exploring.
Possibly the best bit of advice anyone can give you is use the rig you have confidence in. It works for me and I have no worries about a blank day ... that is providing they don't happen too often.
Depends on species for me. I find gurnard, and to some extent Lemonfish seem to hook up better with a simple dropper rig. No idea why, but thats been my experience. I know others here who have found the pulley rig catches everything they want.
I think most Kiwis use the pulley rig more for its long-cast capabilities than anything else. I use it probably 90% of the time for 'exploratory' fishing when I'm not targeting a certain species, but just hoping for a hookup on anything.http://www.paniasurfcasting.org http://www.surfcaster.co.nz
This morning I spent some time tying up a few clipped down, two hook flapper rigs. I have to say at first glance they look as if they will do the business. However, I don't have the final say on that subject, I must leave that to the fish.
Tied up a pulley rig tonite see how it goes after dawn service. just made it up with two swivels and a impact shield should be good fun my cuz got 3 3kg snapper tonite hope they still around tomorrow
My own preference is to be in direct contact with the hook, therefore the running trace gives me more control and a better hook-up rate.
The pulley rig is better for the purpose it was designed for, foul ground. Around Hawke's Bay most beaches are relatively snag free so all the gear used to tie the pulley is not really necessary (IMHO).
However, the pulley will have its devotees and nobody can say their own rig is better. I have said before if you have confidence in a rig, you will catch fish. Over the winter months ... or I should say when I return to the Bay in September, as our fish are generally of the smaller variety, I will be experimenting with the flapper rig.
With smaller fish such as red cod and like sized fish, this rig could be productive as there will be two baits fishing (sometimes three) rather than one. If you follow the European angling scene, where match fishing for money is very popular, the flapper rig wins hands down, scratching competitions are very popular. On the other hand if fishing for the largest fish then the pulley pennel is also very popular.
Someone mentioned this to me only a few days ago, with rigs employ the 'KISS' principal: Keep It Simple Stupid. I am a great believer.
And when you do snag up and lose your pulley rig, trace and shock leader, ( and I've lost many around Napier beaches) you're at least $10 out of pocket.. Less hardware is less costly I guess.http://www.paniasurfcasting.org http://www.surfcaster.co.nz
Don't think it really matters to be fair, one day a simple running rig will be catching all the fish, visit the same spot the following day and the pully rig will be doing the damage. The fish seem to have the final say as to what works and what doesn't. The only rig I don't use much unless I'm targeting moki is the ledger rig. No idea why as I've caught some good trevally with the ledger rig when nothing else has worked.
My fishing goes like this.... Open beach pulley rig mainly for distance but also to present a bait floated up from the bottom. Ledger rig for moki and when the shoalies are in on the sand (if that ever happens again). Bobby cork rig over heavy foul close at hand, eg Te Awanga Reef. Slidebait rig anywhere if I suspect kingfish around. The snapper don't know where the car park is! Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.
There is little difference between a pulley rig and a single branch ledger where the trace sizes are equal as far as I can see...
That is, Assuming the sinker has purchase on the sea floor, then pressure exists from the sinker, through the rig backbone to the top swivel and then to the mainline on a pulley rig.
When a fish takes the bait, it will hold it in its mouth and run or swallow it down close to where it gabbed it, but the sinker->mainline pressure will be approximately the same as a ledger rig.
Another way of thinking about it is to use a pulley rig and not clip it down before casting. Looks very similar to a ledger but with the trace sitting higher up.
I think that by the time the rig is cast further than 50 metres then the small amount of give the running rig has is negated by the weight and friction of the line in the water back to the rod
As to hook up rates between them? Less important than correct bait presentation, correct hook type and size and line placement IMO.
Excellent, well thought out reply. I was watching a demonstration of a guy using a twelve foot rod, and ten pound line. He paced out sixty-five yards and got his wife to hold a pea sized split shot gently between her thumb and finger, the shot had been pinched onto the line.
The guy then returned to his rod, took up the slack, and made a full strike. No matter how hard he tried he could not generate enough power to take the split shot from between his wife's fingers, line stretch negated all the effort.
If you think about this experiment for a moment, it really helps us to understand why we sometimes miss takes you would right fully believe to be impossible.
If mono stretches at x% (Normally x = 30% but W/E) and the distance cast is Y Then Y x X% equals don't bother striking A 13 foot rod struck will take up less than 4 metres line at best case
I figure anything longer than 20 odd meters or so diminishes the importance of the strike Beyond 40 it would be negated
So, I figure hook type and bait presentation beats rig style.
However, I do believe trace length is more critical than rig style.
Tested against Terakihi I observed that long traces came back in a state ranging from tangled to loosely knotted but short traces come back attached to fish
Comparisons were made with the same rig construction (line, Beads and hook all the same)Just differing lengths.
I used to fish with a running rig on one rod and a pulley on the other. The running rig always seemed to get more hook ups and so now I only use running rigs. In rougher conditions Ive sometimes found pulley rigs to be more effective. So saying others seem to use pulley rigs or ledger rigs quite effectively so I cant explain why running rigs work better for me.
Jaypeegee, on the last video I made I was trying out a new line ... well new to me. This is top quality Suffix (I think). This line is unbelievably thin, in fact I would put it not much thicker than braid. On the video I mentioned I was so impressed with this line, especially on a brand new Akios reel, I intended to have one rod with nylon and one with braid to get a true comparison.
Your thoughts on the importance of bait presentation are a mirror image of my own. Far too many cram the bait on the hook making it damn near impossible for the point to penetrate. Even on long shank hooks I always take my pliers, or similar, and tweak the hook point so it is offset. This means if a fish has his mouth closed around the bait, you can almost guaranty a hook up.
I have had people laugh at such an idea, I simply suggest they try to pull an offset hook between two fingers and not get hooked, they soon discover exactly what I mean.
I would hate to think how many pre-tied rigs I carry: pulleys, flowing traces and flapper rigs. You will not find one trace over 50cms long, many are only 35cms.
Bling is a matter of personal taste, yes I carry several beads with me but these are used primarily for knot protection rather than to attract fish. I also carry several pieces of luminous tube, about 2cms long, these slide over the knot and prevent a hard bead from hitting the knot. I will quickly add I sometimes do use beads to attract fish but I lean toward pearl colour, these are especially handy if Kahawhai are on the prowl. The flash of silver can encourage a strike on the retrieve.
Presentation is without doubt the way to consistently catch fish. It doesn't matter what variety of fish because the idea is not to blank. I would much rather consistently be successful from the beach than aim at one particular specie of which if lucky, I may catch two a year.
on 23/4/2015, 12:49 am