We've written a bit lately about different rigs, sharp hooks, and mussels for bait. I was fishing this evening at Papamoa and never got a bite. I used a running rig with pilchards and mussels. So, was the bait wrong, was the rig wrong, or were there just no fish there? In other words, will any rig get bites? If there are no bites with a particular rig, after trying various baits, what difference will changing terminal tackle make? Note, I'm not talking about hooking a fish, or landing a fish, just being aware that there are fish there. I don't mind experimenting, it's what fishermen do, and I don't really mind not catching fish, especially if the surroundings are great, and I will try different bits and bobs to catch fish, but surely the usual variety of baits, surfcast from the beach will get bites if there are fish there. The rig makes no difference.
Re: what rig?
Posted by Hangler on 2/5/2015, 12:52 am, in reply to "what rig?"
Druid, this is posted with humour, but it shows that anglers on the other side of the world experience problems such as you have mentioned. We all have bad days, those times when we miss fish we should have caught, we can generally think of many reasons for our empty bag. I respectfully suggest you don't worry about it, the next time you fish, things may well alter for the better.
Now take a read this and look at the bait and rig changes this guy made, then realise just how lucky we are.
Copied from another site:
A challenging weekend indeed to grab some shingle time and , indeed, weaker men would have failed ! Out with customers Friday night..........skittles.............soup in a basket and an ocean of red matter. Saturday....the sister in laws kitchen to tile..........shall we have square ones..........hell no, brick size and in bond, alcoves, piers and recesses and it has to be done by Sunday ! Planned to leave at 5pm and fish the tide down and 1 up........cleaned the tile cutter at 7pm and consumed a 2000 calorie take away china, flask of black coffee and on the shingle for 10pm. Got to finish by 1am.........tiling again in the morning
Cracking Prime black n rag, squid,sand eel,mackie heads, squid and some Cinderellas for tipping.
Went with the standard size 4 3 hook 'blankbuster' rig and size 2's on a 2 hooker for starters. Mackie head planned out over low and see what happened.
A wee blustery Sou Wester had spiced up some crunch and the lone lunatic on the beach was I.
Both rods moving from the off but the small hooks on the plop were busiest with some serious clouts but no hook ups...........first chuck long with 2's returned a scratty ting.
I suspected that Mr Dawg was about and set up a 3/0 2 hook flapper when a right pull round on the 4's returned same Mr Dawg with a tiny colin hanging on the top hook so 3 species in 30 minutes.
Dropped the 2's shorter and plopped the 3/0s with sand eel on top and squid n black on the bottom.
Missed hits on 3/0s which were clearly canine in origin and a big pull round had a feisty doggie weighing in at 1lb 9 on the beach.
Low at 11pm and out with a mackie head short and persisted with the 2's looking for something flat, tipping with Cinderellas saw a succession of hand sized pout but no dabs.Mackie head vanished after 40 minutes of taps and tiffles so back out with the 3/0s.
Midnight raced up on me with a couple more ting on the long chuck and a couple more pout and colins closer in. 2 more doggies found the 3/0 squid and lug too much too resist and a doggie pup fell to the top hook on the 2's. Tried sand eel on the 3/0s fox close but they went untouched.
Back out with black n squid head on the big hooks for a last chuck at 1 am...........2 big hits and a slackliner I never caught up with and the lead ended up almost under my feet...........had to have one more, same again..........another decent knock on the 2's rod saw a clean bite off on the bottom hook.......wtf was that ?
A tiny pout hanged itself on the bottom big hook and I made the car at 1.40 am with 5 dogs, 8 pout 4 ting and 3 colins to my name. The dogs must have been legion out there, so many knocks and no hook ups.......doggie kisses I think describes them well ! Love to know what took my 6 oz breakaway for a walk but no complaints for a just over 3 hour session ( apart from a wee rash on the left hand from one of my pets !)
Don't know if the guy that pitched up to my right is on here but, sorry bud,your shelter looked like a Chines Lantern when you tried to get that light going ! A guy well to my left had at least 1 dog that I saw.
Maybe a different venue next week with a very average angler..........till then.........tight lines guys
*** Translation in to Kiwi ***.
Mr Dawg ... dogfish.
Ting ... Whiting.
Pout ... Pout whiting.
Collins ... rockling - probably the most dislike fish in the northern seas.
Mackie ... mackerel.
Lug ... lug worm.
Rag ... King rag worm.
Squid ... as here.
Sand eel ... a natural bait, we have nothing like it here.
Cinderellas for tipping ... can't help with this one, I can't work this one out.
Re: what rig?
Posted by The druid on 2/5/2015, 3:45 pm, in reply to "Re: what rig?"
He certainly has a rare turn of phrase. It's a wonder he has time to think. What I'm trying to say is that if we've tried our usual baits, and don't get bites, changing anything except location won't help. I would suggest that when surfcasting the bait is no more than a metre off the bottom whatever rig we're using, so no bites mean no fish. Bites but no hook ups mean the bait's ok but either our striking ability or terminal tackle needs looking at. So, the rig is there to cast and hook a biting fish.
Re: what rig?
Posted by whippersnapper on 3/5/2015, 12:20 am, in reply to "what rig?"
Always try different baits in the same spot. If nothing is working I usually walk away and try another spot, doesn't need to be far say every 50m and try again. The only other thing would be visual aids, say a small lumo bead, but generally speaking if there's no fish there you wont catch any regardless of rig.
Re: what rig?
Posted by Hangler on 3/5/2015, 11:10 am, in reply to "what rig?"
One further problem is discovering the actual bite time, this may only last thirty minutes, and more importantly, what triggers it?
I have tide times I like to fish, usually two hours before and two hours after the high. I have no idea why that should be so, perhaps it's because I usually catch fish at those times. Just recently we had a really nice day and it was impossible to ignore the desire to go fishing. I checked the tides, they were all wrong, but decided to go anyhow. The result was plenty of action and a mixed bag of assorted odds and ends. By any standard a really enjoyable session.
A trout angler will often carry a long marrow spoon to examine the stomach of a trout to see what it has been feeding on. Just recently, when I have cleaned a fish on the beach, I have been surprised at the high number of tiny fish in the gut cavity. I cannot name the specie of small fish but accept they were the likely cause the bite time.
I honestly believe the most prominent foods on a fish menu is likely to be shellfish and small crabs. I am so pleased with this new method of opening and presenting mussels as bait, I will always be carrying a few with me in future. Will this help? I don't know but there is only one way of finding out, mussels are present in reasonable numbers on the rocks near where I fish.
Re: what rig?
Posted by The druid on 3/5/2015, 10:54 pm, in reply to "Re: what rig?"
So what we're saying is that if there are fish there we'll know it, but hooking up is what the other 10% do best.
Re: what rig?
Posted by Hangler on 4/5/2015, 12:57 am, in reply to "Re: what rig?"
Druid, you have missed one commodity all anglers rely on and yet it cannot be accounted for, nor relied on: lady luck.
Sometimes we analyse things that are beyond accountability, that certain X factor.
The one thing I have tried to get over on the posts I put on this board also the videos I make: success should not be measured by fish landed. True success is the pleasure we take away with us when we pack the gear away and head for home. Sadly it is obvious some anglers do not experience such pleasure but that is their loss; it's not called catching it's simply fishing.
I have enjoyed these exchanges of posts, I am confident soon your fortune will change, as I know mine will ... I blanked the last time I fished.
Re: what rig?
Posted by GaryK on 4/5/2015, 4:16 am, in reply to "Re: what rig?"
If you relyed on catching to be a sucessful HB fisherman you wouldnt be.The snapper don't know where the car park is! Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.
Re: what rig?
Posted by Hangler on 4/5/2015, 10:36 am, in reply to "Re: what rig?"
That is a matter of personal opinion. I am more than happy with my catch rate and I enjoy every visit to the beach. I never stray far from local beaches and I have enjoyed regular success on Marine Parade and certainly at TeAwanga and Clifton.
The difference being I enjoy catching all and every fish, I do not measure my enjoyment by snapper, moki, gurnard and lemons.
I know exactly what it is like to fish waters where a fish over half a pound is considered a specimen, I also know there are anglers who would sell there soul to catch a 'big one' from the beach.
Re: what rig?
Posted by Rex HB on 5/5/2015, 10:53 am, in reply to "Re: what rig?"
If there not biting your probably better off to move and try some where else. Im not so sure hungry fish worry about your rig so much, although fussy fish might be choosy on bait. Patience while virtuous doesnt always get you a feed on the table
Re: what rig?
Posted by The druid on 5/5/2015, 11:33 am, in reply to "Re: what rig?"
Thanks Rex, my sentiments exactly. Bait is, as the name suggests, for biting on, a rig is for putting the bait where we think fish might be, MIGHT be.
Re: what rig?
Posted by Hangler on 5/5/2015, 1:55 pm, in reply to "Re: what rig?"
One other thing comes to mind, this is a personal point of view: the importance of using two rods.
I have broached this subject before and I still believe it to be very important. We have become almost brainwashed into believing the necessity of casting a long way, with two rods you can afford to explore the really close in water. My experience has been it is often the rod fishing close in that gets the takes, whilst the distant rod lies dormant.
I know close to the beach is the home of bait fish, especially YEM's, isn't this what larger fish are looking for? I often see fish rising or jumping only a matter of twenty metres from shore, well my rod fishing 100 metres out isn't a lot of use is it?
Re: what rig?
Posted by jeep on 7/5/2015, 6:29 pm, in reply to "Re: what rig?"
Point proven the other day, fish your feet. Fishing a 50m+ cast with a surfcaster and also had my little 7ft spinning rod out with a a pillie head in the surf zone. Guess which rod caught the fish, and a lot of fun with the ky pulling a lot of line before being beached.
Re: what rig?
Posted by The druid on 7/5/2015, 7:43 pm, in reply to "Re: what rig?"
If using two rods would it make sense to have the same baits and rig on the 30m rod and the 100m rod?
Re: what rig?
Posted by Hangler on 7/5/2015, 9:53 pm, in reply to "Re: what rig?"
Druid,this video from the UK shows what can happen when using two rods, one distant and one close. The fish landed are bass, the UK equivalent of our snapper. Two rods, two different rigs but the same bait, in this case crab.
The question you have posed regarding different baits is relevant but there is no standard answer. If shells are being washed up onto the beach it would suggest mussels or pipis could be worth a go. If you think Kahawai are working behind the surf then anchovy or a pilchard is likely to succeed.
I know there are others who agree with the suggestion it always helps when you have confidence in what you are doing. From a personal point of view I do not go surfcasting hoping to catch a fish; I go to the beach believing I will catch fish. Mind you I am not worried regarding what specie of fish I catch, whilst others are a little more choosy.
I have just noticed on another thread Fringsy has suggested there may be a 'red one' to be caught this weekend. It will be good to read red cod have turned up at last, I know they bring a lot of pleasure ... when cooked properly they are good eating too.
Posted by BobB on 8/5/2015, 12:57 pm, in reply to "what rig?"
I am fishing the beach at Papamoa. I fish two rods. One a top of the line Rod and reel that I can cast a fair way (Never actually measured it) and the other Rod is on old 2nd hand Rod and reel that I cant cast half the distance. Over the last couple of weeks the old Rod and reel have caught 90% of my snapper and KY. Samebaits same rigs.
Re: what rig?
Posted by The druid on 8/5/2015, 6:43 pm, in reply to "Re: what rig?"
Well done Bob, just the response I like. Straight to the point, from first hand experience, and on a beach I'm just starting to work out.
Re: what rig?
Posted by Rex HB on 8/5/2015, 7:22 pm, in reply to "Re: what rig?"
One as far as you can cast, the other at varying distances. Alternate baits on each because you never know when the fish prefer pillies to anchovies or vice versa
on 1/5/2015, 11:47 pm
