I have really enjoyed the 'What Rod' thread started by fin-nor. At the time of starting this thread fin-nor's effort has received 34 replies, brilliant, just what any message board needs.
Like most anglers I am always up for better gear and I am very pleased with the excellent rig making material to be found at Tackle Tactics. This is right up with the international scene, and gives us all a chance to not only use the best rigs, but also learn from the experts based in the European match fishing circuit.
Having handed out a couple of compliments, I am allowed to offer some brickbats, and this is something that impresses me not one bit. It would seem every rod manufacturer is intent on showing their product can send a sinker to the horizon, easily capable of 200 metres plus. Really? Pardon the expression, such a comment holds the same amount of water as kitchen sieve, it's bullsh*t.
Distance casting is a technique not easily learned, it requires education, a need to understand how the build of the rod works, it requires an understanding of the power ratio for the weight of sinker. Just in case you think I am out of kilter with general thinking, have a look at your neighbours on the beach and judge just how far they are putting their baits out from the shore. Few will hit 120 metres, many will not reach 100 metres, but there is nothing wrong with that as in many cases that is where the fish can be found.
I would like to get a matched pair of rods, preferably 15 feet in length, both with a fast action, a good test curve and perfectly at home casting a 3 ounce sinker. So I searched the websites, then when I had a few models in mind, I went to the ever reliable YouTube. I find I must now rephrase that ... for once YouTube or their subscribers have completely let me down.
Right, what's the problem? Well before I go into detail I am sure that you, like me, can simply pick up a rod and know by feel if that rod is for you. There is no easy way of explaining such a feeling, it's simply everything feels right. You then examine the rings, the winch fitting, where this fitting sits in comparison to the rod butt and other small details that are required to suit your needs.
Now let's go to YouTube. Virtually every clip by manufacturers and users are based around the rod's casting ability. I am not stupid, I doubt if any of the anglers on this site are stupid either. Of course a rod and reel set up with line only going directly to a sinker will cast a country mile when compared with a set up that has terminal end gear, complete with a fair size essential called bait. This is likely to knock at least twenty-five percent (maybe more) off the distance you can cast. What's more, what has distance casting got to do with fishing anyway?
On YouTube there are hundreds, if not thousands of clips showing rods and reels doing their stuff. There are manufacturers, designers and sales people showing the sensitive rod tip, it's bite detection capability, all extolling the virtue of how their rod will handle and subdue a fish.
Now you may be willing to believe everything these people say and show, I put this information on level par with a second-hand car salesperson.
I have a question, nothing too outrageous, why the hell don't these people take their new rod they are trying to impress us with, down the beach and show us the damn thing doing what it's supposed to do? Show me a rod handling a fish like our common Kahawai and I will tell by the curve in the rod, more importantly where that curve is, and that will reveal me more information about the rod than any sales pitch.
Show me a rod and reel with a normal end rig, perhaps a pulley rig, with a decent sized pilchard as bait, complete with a little bling. Let me watch the salesman cast from the shore and I can tell how the rod loads up, how the tip works under pressure, I can see what part of the rod generates 'the power' to put that end gear a 100 metres out. Now set the rod in a rod rest, let me see how it handles a grip wire sinker when wound into the sea bed, let me see how good it is for bite detection.
If someone wants to sell me a rod or two, and I am spending big dollars, I don't believe what I ask to be outrageous. In fact it's reasonably basic, even the used car salesperson is happy for me to have a test drive.
I am not in the slightest bit interested in distance casting, as someone this week put it so well, catching dirt. I am interested in fishing, pure and simple, all I want to know is if that rod will work for me and the only way for me to get an answer to my question is when someone actually loads a video onto YouTube and shows me. Not too much to ask surely?
It's all very well suggesting a shop has a rod you can test cast with. However, those test casts show you nothing on how that rod fishes, and isn't that what we are buying the rod for?
Comments very welcome but from an angler's point of view, you are the person shelling out the money.
Re: Rods, and Sales.
Posted by Neil on 29/11/2015, 8:17 pm, in reply to "Rods, and Sales."
Rod feel is subjective .
You can play with a rod in the shop cast it and read /watch many reviews but in the end how it feels in your hands is all that matters .
This would explain why I have a garage full of the sodding things
Tools for different jobs is how I see it . light med heavy duty they all have a task they are good for .
Casting a rod for video is the easy part . Going out and catching a fish on film...Murphy's law will take care of that
Rod manufacturers using maximum casting distance as a selling point is a bit like, camera makers using 'more megapixels is better" Both are just numbers that have no real benefit to the average person. I have a couple of Kilwell 222's and these rods have been proven to cast 150-200m in the right hands. Thats great, it still has no meaning to me, the best I can do is in the 120's. Like you Hangler, I'm not 'into' distance casting, and only did it as a matter of interest. The rods have served me well on the beach, and around here (Napier) casting 50, 100, or 200m is not going to make any difference in your catch bag. If the kontiki guys can't get any fish at 1km offshore, casting 200m is not going to improve your lot. The only time I had wished for a longer cast was in the BOP where there was a sandbar about 80m out and I would have liked to land one out past that. As it was my best cast could only just land on the seaward side of the bar and not out in the deep water.http://www.paniasurfcasting.org http://www.surfcaster.co.nz
Re: Rods, and Sales.
Posted by Phill on 30/11/2015, 11:48 am, in reply to "Rods, and Sales." Tackle Tactics
I have found a rod that may suit you Hangler. Diawa Sensor Surf 15'3pc fast taper 10-20kg line 90-180g cast weight 'yeah right' they describe the action as xtra heavy but its not. It would suit 75g-125g in my opinion. These rods are well put together and are light weight thin profile.Very nice. The RRP is $549.00 but I can feel a deal coming on for two.
Re: Rods, and Sales.
Posted by Hangler on 30/11/2015, 2:11 pm, in reply to "Rods, and Sales."
Phill, many thanks for your response. First I Googled the rod you mentioned ... nothing. I then went to YouTube ... nothing. I then went to your rod site on Tackle Tactics, again nothing, the rod isn't mentioned.
Every rod is advertised solely for its ability to cast, there is not a single word on how they fish. That is the exact subject of this thread. Keeping prospective customers informed of a rod's fishing abilities is not the task of retailers, it is the job of the manufactures. They are the people who should be showing the rod for what it is designed and purchased for: catching fish.
The rod doesn't have to be filmed fishing in New Zealand, it can be filmed anywhere in the world catching any type of fish. What I want to see is my prospective rod working, doing what I intend to use it for.
You are keenly interested in casting competitions, I am not. May I make a suggestion? The next time you are at a casting competition, make three casts with a rod, it doesn't matter the make, perhaps the latest Veritas, then take an average distance you recorded. Next add the usual end gear, swivels, bait clip, hook length, bling and something that reasonably imitates an average sized bait, a plastic, pilchard sized lure would be a good imitation ... then repeat the three cast process.
Then come back on site and report your findings. Let the members know the amount of distance you dropped by adding the necessary for when fishing. This is the true worth of any rod, not what can be achieved casting in a paddock with just a slimline sinker..
I will continue to research the rod you have suggested, I really do appreciate your advice.
I have deleted the paragraph from this post regarding the 4 Plus Bait Rod. I have been advised I was in error and on checking, this proved to be so. I am indebted to the person who took the trouble to contact me, his help was invaluable.
Neil, I noted your earlier comment about catching a fish on film is Murphy's law. Now that is subjective and I can't explain why this should be.
I haven't kept score but last season I made about ten videos for YouTube, I blanked once. My main aim was to hit the beach fishing for rays, that is what English viewers love, they find it unbelievable I (we) can catch very large fish almost at will.
However, lets forget rays for a moment and just look at general fishing. In no way am I bragging and I would hate you to think so, but I had an excellent season and all caught on film. I had two snapper, just small shoalies but that was two more than most. I had several kahawai, tope, small sharks, some really large YEMS, some nice eels and I can throw in a small trev.
Several posts on this board say there are no fish in the Bay, well I never left the Bay. Whilst most were unhappy, I had a thoroughly enjoyable time.
Who is right and who is wrong. I have no interest in people who proclaim all I caught were sh*t fish, I enjoyed myself, and those fish were far better than blanking.
Over the years shore fishing has certainly changed, but this is not the first time it has happened. Forty years ago the local beaches were a bloody disaster area, snapper, what snapper? Same with gurnard, virtually unheard of but Kahawai were a little more plentiful. Food for thought, believe me in those days there were a lot more trawlers working this area than there are now. For several years the Pania open was won by a single small fish or the snapper prize was shared among other fish landed.
If I was given a rod to test I am confident I would have a fish on film within a session or two. When I wrote for publication I was freelance for Bay Fisher magazine, I did this for about four years. I was given gear by companies to give an honest appraisal, and that was exactly what they got. The difference being I wrote a report from an angler's point of view, not a sales pitch, believe me there is a huge difference.
Tho old saying other never work with kids or animals was what I was thinking when it comes to film.
Re: Rods, and Sales.
Posted by Phill on 30/11/2015, 8:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Rods, and Sales." Tackle Tactics
When I am buying rods or any fishing gear for that matter I don't buy on blurb or price or name. I buy on the fish ability ,value for money or a special feature . The rod I described to you I felt satisfied your requirements . Most of the wholesalers wouldn't have a clue about Surfcasting rods so when I go to an indent show I am brutal with the rep. Karen cringes sometimes but I try to do the best for our customers most of the time I believe I get it right. Your comment about distance casting is a valid one we have always intended a back to back but always run out of time. Neil mentioned that I cast 203m with a Veritas Mk1 that was an off the shelf rod with a cheap Tica Dolphin reel .28 line 15-50 lb tapered leader and a 100g lead. I would imagine with a clipped down rid and a pilly tail should cast around 150-160m . I will ask the question a see if I can get a sample rod to get some images . I have given the rod a bend and I believe it is what you are after.
So you reckon to lose a fair bit of what the rod is advertised as it's capabilities, about 25%.
This bears out exactly what I have been saying, what all those adverts on YouTube have to say is simply rubbish, the information has no relationship to fishing, and that is what we buy rods for.
Re: Rods, and Sales.
Posted by Phill on 30/11/2015, 10:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Rods, and Sales." Tackle Tactics
You sweet talking thing, next you'll be wanting to share Sue's Jewellery box!!!
Re: Rods, and Sales.
Posted by Phill on 2/12/2015, 11:27 am, in reply to "Re: Rods, and Sales." Tackle Tactics
Attention Hangler I have the 15' Diawa Sensor in my hot little hands and its better than I remembered. The bindings are high quality. The guides are Fuji K anti-tangle which are the only other type of guide to use in my opinion. I will give it a bend as soon as I can and get some images with the rod in action.
Phil, as mentioned in my second post on this thread, I had a certain rod in mind. The YouTube blurb had nothing to do with casting, it was on bite detection and handling grip leads in a swift tide and it is designed for 3 or 4 ounce weights, the only kind I ever use. I made an error in that post, this was brought to my attention in a very polite way, I immediately put matters to right.
I was invited to handle one of those rods, I did so this morning and I was most impressed. Please, as yet, do not go to any trouble on my behalf. I really like what I have found and subject to cost, these are rods I would be more than happy with.
Have you cast and fished a 14 foot Predator rod Hangler? The snapper don't know where the car park is! Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.
on 29/11/2015, 5:41 pm
