Another dealy weekend in the Dead Sea. Apart from a 14.8kg Kingfish from North Shore!The snapper don't know where the car park is! Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.
Re: Hey Hardy.....
Posted by Hardy on 11/1/2016, 9:13 am, in reply to "Hey Hardy....."
Gary I can remember a few years back, when this forum had many many pics of fine fish caught in " The Bay of Hawkes". Some big buggars too. Its a sad thing to see a fishery decline, in such a way as it has up there. Any recovery is going to be long term, if indeed one is ever put in place by the powers that be. I'm talking snapper and gurnard here. I concede that I am a long way from your neck of the woods. And am basing my comments on the lack of pics and local fishing Competition results.
The Mokihinui Competition results are indeed impressive. Golden Bay and the Nelson Bays fisheries, (The source of West Coast/Buller fish). Are now fishing very well indeed. This has been bought about by the pressure put on the " Powers that be) by very dedicated local Fishing Clubs, who have lobbied the Government, and put pressure on them to conserve the snapper fishery. Hence reduced quota and I believe no trawling permitted in the snapper breeding season.
The scallop season for amateurs up that way is also very much alive and well, due to similar restrictions, and seeding of scallop spat.
An example of what pressure by Fishing Clubs can achieve is the removal of the " Slot" Restriction, on Marlborough Sounds Blue Cod. It was a silly plan/idea, that actually resulted in the needless death of blue cod. This occurred when fish that fell into the size restriction were returned to the sea after being caught. (Hook damage, shags/shock took their toll on the poor old Blue Cod. There is still a closed season. So a once critically challenged Blue Cod population is now on the improve.
Perhaps my good mate Ron Prestage could add his views, as he lives in Nelson and has more knowledge and insight into all this than me. And he catches heaps of fish.
Perhaps I may upset a few calling up there the Dead Sea. But the last two summers, or maybe even more. There has been little on here in the way of successful Hawkes Bay Fishing expeditions and pics. Largely the forum lately, is all about Line, reels, and Rods. And here we are in the middle of our summer fishing season.
Cheers Trev aka " Hardy" Time to go fishing again
Re: Hey Hardy.....
Posted by Rex HB on 11/1/2016, 9:28 am, in reply to "Re: Hey Hardy....."
The title "dead sea" is apt. See the December article in December Fishing News on this very subject which provides survey statistics that support this. There has been significant negotiation between Legasea HB and the commercial fishing lobby through meetings organised by MPI. Supposedly changes are in the pipeline with certain boundaries being imposed on commercial fishermen. Sadly though its all voluntary so .........
Re: Hey Hardy.....
Posted by ron548 on 11/1/2016, 10:55 am, in reply to "Re: Hey Hardy....."
Hardy is right about the state of the Tasman Bay snapper fishery. Unbelievable is not a strong enough word to describe it. The snapper in the photograph were caught just before Christmas from a spot in Tasman Bay from which I can see my house on the Tahuna hills of Nelson. How good is that?
Re: Hey Hardy.....
Posted by Hangler on 11/1/2016, 4:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Hey Hardy....."
Hardy, I have a question for you. A question I feel is relevant and deserves to be asked on an open forum, a place where anglers are free to make up their own minds.
This comes in two parts: Why is it angling clubs in the North Island seem to get nowhere with their concerns, other than a lot of waffle that achieves nothing?
Why is it that in the South Island fishing clubs are able to achieve so much and the Ministry listens? I note in the examples you have given, in both cases this has worked extremely well for both the fish stocks and local anglers alike. The clubs did this, I assume, without assistance.
The second part to my question: Why isn't the NZACA able to achieve anything like such concrete results? Isn't this the body anglers, through club registration, are levied to support and act for them? All I can read in the NZACA news letter is information on an annual fishing competition and a distance casting competition, with numerous rule changes for the few participants.
These are fair questions. If the details you have quoted are accurate, I am sure the local Hawke's Bay anglers would be interested in knowing your secret. They may even start to question their local NZACA representative to the governing body.
I will do my best to answer your question. In the days of MAF, there was a large MAF Fisheries office in Nelson. I was a member of a committee (Representing Buller) that met regularly with MAF staff. To discuss all aspects of fishy things. We came to use their language and understand it. Bio Mass,sustainability,the quota system, and lots of other funny fishy words. They listened to us, and accepted our comments on a declining fishery.
We were the fishermen, and they were the guardians of our fishery. So we had good dialogue with them. Ok we didn't get to move heaven and earth overnight. Like all things, good things and change takes time. We didn't just rave on and criticize. We offered solution's, and they listened. These Advisory Committees were set up in each region throughout NZ. I am aware that some in the North Island really just turned into slanging matches. Fishermen V MAF.
Each year there was a National Meeting, usually held in the North Island. We would send two or three representatives to that meeting.(MAF paid all expenses). Our members were quite dismayed at the attitude of some of the North Island members at that National Meeting. Where the MAF representatives were abused, criticized and held in low regard. In other words a Shit Fight, excuse my language.
On our committee, there were some very astute people. We just worked quietly and positively with MAF.
I guess that this approach ultimately paid off. As we gained the ear of the Minister of Fisheries at the time. And were able to enter into dialogue with him. Not me personally, but reps from our committee, those from the fishing industry, and of course MAF staffers. I am reminded of a saying that a very good friend of mine imparted on me. He happens to be an American, now naturalized. He was told this by his grandfather. " You catch more flys with honey than vinegar" but at times you may have to play hardball". I myself have kinda lived by that saying. And trust me it works.
The Fishing Club in Blenheim are very pro-active. As is the Nelson one. And when the Blue Cod saga was alive and well, they approached it in a very positive attitude. Ultimately a Blue Cod Advisory group was set up. And eventually a compromise was met and put in place. That is what positive and reasoned argument can bring about. Get the Commercial Fishing industry to listen to you and understand their concerns. After all it is their livelihood and they rely on it for income, and employment. In doing so, they will listen to us, and accept and understand our views.
The end result is shown in the rather amazing competition results at Mokihinui and the Nelson pics from Ron. I might add, he rang me and said as he didn't want to rub salt in the wound, he cropped out the tub or two full of snapper. And yep, they didn't have anymore than their quota. allowed. Nelson itself is more of a boat fishing place, than surfcasting, so we can forgive Ron for having a boat. He just comes down here to Buller and poaches our snapper and Rig .
Well I hope that answers your question Hangler. I have given it my best shot. I might add, the Blenheim Fishing Club was very good at getting media coverage with reasoned dialogue that the general public can liken too and understand. And of course Politicians read papers too. Its not a them and us, thing when it comes to declining fish stocks, the fishing industry feels it too. So it becomes a " we" thing. I might add, "The Fishing Industry does have a few pirates who continually break the rules. And I see one or two are quite active up your way. Down here in the South Island, they seem to be like Moa's, bloody hard to find, if indeed they actually exist. And us shore based folks also have our pirates, mainly in the shell fish gathering side of things. The Fisheries Officers, mainly volunteers, do a great job over on the Kaikoura Coast, with policing Crays and paua's. And of course we have Pirate Boaties, I am not being parochial here, but most of that activity seems to be from the North Island, going by what I watch on the Tele and read in the papers, and it seems to be race based, and I am not being racist there, just quoting it as I see it.
Much like Kontiki Fishermen and Surf Casters. Kontiki Fishermen do not really impact on our fishery, they are one to two kilometres off shore, and I can;t cast that far.. I am a close inshore fisherman. The only time I get a little bit grumpy is when they set their Kontiki line through the hole I want to fish. And it may be the only hole on my area of beach. They can set anywhere and catch fish. My only chance is that nice hole, that will be holding fish.
When the Mokihinui organizers, bought the Kontiki Section in. My first reaction was, that is not sport fishing. Not much skill involved. But then I came to think. Well they still have to contend with drift and the other perils of Kontiki Fishing and the dreaded snag and have to break the line, bye bye a few thousand dollars. And sharks biting through the line, another bye bye.
The Mokihinui Competition is run by one Westport Family, the Murphy's, it has run for years and is very popular, good prizes too. The Murphy"s are both Surf Casters and Kontiki users.
The only gripe I have with the Competition is that the Major Prize, $1000.00, which of course is for the heaviest Fish overall, includes sting rays. A Sting Ray always wins it. I would be somewhat upset, if say I landed a 20lb plus snapper only to be outdone by a Ray. Wouldn't mind being beaten by a Rig, (Your Lemon Fish or smooth hound and many other names). In my view, there should be a separate Sting Ray Section. And what does sadden me just a tad, is that those big Rays, are being caught for a prize and not the table. After weighing they are dumped. A sad end to a fish, that has lived for many years and bothered no-one.
Right time to go mow the lawn.
Cheers Trev aka " Hardy" Time to go fishing again
Re: Hey Hardy.....
Posted by Hangler on 12/1/2016, 8:30 am, in reply to "Re: Hey Hardy....."
Thank you, Hardy. I read your reply with utmost admiration. I hope the anglers of Hawke's Bay take note of the positive comments contained therein and try to emulate your success.
I also fully agree with your comments regarding the NZACA, well put.
Re: Hey Hardy.....
Posted by ABU Man on 13/1/2016, 6:47 am, in reply to "Re: Hey Hardy....."
I believe the NZACA is past it's use by date, and a whole new approach needs to be taken. Unfortunately the best people to get things on the right track are scattered far & wide and it is a difficult task to unite them altogether as a group that could do great things for surfcasting in NZ. As far as our fishing rights are concerned, Legasea are doing a great job and should be receiving all of our support.
Re: Hey Hardy.....
Posted by Phill on 13/1/2016, 9:50 am, in reply to "Re: Hey Hardy....." Tackle Tactics
There has been some discussion along the lines of a Surfcasting only group off the beaches only. Any thoughts?.
Re: Hey Hardy.....
Posted by ABU Man on 13/1/2016, 1:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Hey Hardy....."
You know my thoughts Phill, there are a few options that are worth consideration if there is sufficient interest from others around the country. If I can help in any way, I shall.
Re: Hey Hardy.....
Posted by Hangler on 14/1/2016, 9:52 am, in reply to "Re: Hey Hardy....."
Hardy, your comments regarding the success you have experienced in preserving and improving the fish stocks have now been on this site for a few days.
Your comments regarding the success of your fishing competition, a great selection of prime fish brought to the scales. A well run competition patronized by anglers, people who give freely of their time and have achieved so much. This is a credit to you the Southerners, perhaps this is why it is known as the mainland.
You have not only reported on what you have achieved, you have given freely of the information on how you went about it, invaluable information where much can be learned.
Up until now this has drawn a nil response from Hawke's Bay anglers, other than one angler who must view your association with kontiki anglers with considerable disdain as he suggests gill netters should be invited to fish alongside of you. I pass no comment on such a suggestion, it's simply not worth it.
I will certainly admit Legasea have been far more active in matters pertaining to fish stocks for surfcasters, rarely a week goes by without their name popping up. Over the coming weeks there are several competitions for surfcasters to enjoy. It would be interesting to hear if the NZACA have representatives in attendance, handing out literature on the work they do for surf casting, thereby trying to gain some new members. They could also explain the hard work they are doing on improving local fish stocks, which for too many years in Hawke's Bay have been in free fall.
Hardy, I smiled at your idea of a huge ray taking a top prize and a 20 kg snapper missing out. A few years ago, in local competitions, they would put up a prize for the heaviest non-scale fish, this to cover sharks and rays, but even this wasn't fool proof.
Local angler and Pania member, Gerry Derricut, caught an 8lb 12oz Moki. This fish obliterated the club record, a magnificent achievement. His prize was $50.00 as 'heaviest other fish'. The snapper prize winner (there was only one caught) weighed in at a little over 2 lbs, the angler took home $1000.00.
Surf casting is not always fair and on occasions it can throw up some interesting results ... or anomalies.
As to Phill's idea: one of the most sensible suggestions I have read for a very long time. Let the NZACA get on with casting and annual running a fishing competition. Let anglers and their clubs look after, and encourage running their sport, after all, they at at the coal face ... so to speak, and are very familiar with the needs of their sport.
No need to be a word twisting smarty Hangler, You know what I was aying and it certainly wasnt that I suggested gill netters fish along side the southeners. I agree with the idea that the NZACA (or another group) should be for surfcasting only, not making it elitist but rather so the group can consentrate of the surfcasting scene. This would include access, inshore water quality, tackle, education, demonstrations, and other things pertaining to surfcasting. AS it is resources, time, probably money and energy of the people concerned is being allocated for the wider group of fishers. Some of those have their own groups so there is no need to bring them in to a surfcasting group. Here I refer to Kayak Clubs, NZLBG Club, jet skiers and other boating groups. Of course we could be very close to these clubs who generally will have similr aspirations to ours. WE could have fish togethers, contests etc and keep close to them. The NZACA (or NZSCA)can the consentrate on the shorline and particularly beach fishing scene. Just throwing that out there. What do you think? The snapper don't know where the car park is! Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.
Re: Hey Hardy.....
Posted by ABU Man on 15/1/2016, 7:03 am, in reply to "Re: Hey Hardy....."
You make some great points Gary. Several of these thoughts have been supported by NZ Surfcasters for years but have not been developed, maybe it is time we all worked together instead of knocking down those that dare to speak up and suggest alternative ideas.
Re: Hey Hardy.....
Posted by Rex HB on 15/1/2016, 9:07 pm, in reply to "Re: Hey Hardy....."
The outline Hardy gave is pretty much what Legasea HB have been doing. They've been building a relationship with both MPI and commercial fishing interests. Apparently they are both listening and most thinking people know Rome wasn't built in a day. Suggestions that they and the NZACA are conducting a "lot of waffle that achieves nothing" are ignorant and unfair but typical of the writer. Personally I take my hat off to them particularly knowing the amount of time they "dedicate' to the sport. The sad thing is some of there critics will benefit from there efforts in time. Good on them for dogmatically sticking to this thankless task, mostly because they are trying to do good for the fishery, rather than any self interest, particularly in the face of some pretty staunch opposition.
Re: Hey Hardy.....
Posted by Grant BOP on 18/1/2016, 9:56 am, in reply to "Re: Hey Hardy....."
on 11/1/2016, 5:29 am
. I am a close inshore fisherman. The only time I get a little bit grumpy is when they set their Kontiki line through the hole I want to fish. And it may be the only hole on my area of beach. They can set anywhere and catch fish. My only chance is that nice hole, that will be holding fish.