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mot corrosion query

Posted by ian(n) on February 7, 2007, 7:29 am

Gentlemen, two vehicles in our immediate area are the subject of much discussion re the structural integrity of two panels/areas.
The first, is a mini (old style) front wing
The second is a discovery offside front 'bay panel' (the horizontal panel which is joined to the bulkhead & inner wing)
what's your opinion re them being load bearing'
I seeme to remember one part of a mini outer being load bearing? but my memories no friend at the moment.
tia ian(n)

Re: mot corrosion query

Posted by Alan Kane on February 7, 2007, 8:38 am, in reply to "mot corrosion query"

Hi Ian,

Re. the Mini. Competition prepared Mini's have run for years without both inner and outer wings without problem, ie fiberglass one piece front. Would a rotten wing make it less safe in an accident? Dont think so.
Mini is a monocoque design and the front panels are merely appendages.

HTH

Alan

Re: mot corrosion query

Posted by steve middleton on February 7, 2007, 12:42 pm, in reply to "mot corrosion query"

Ian,
i don't think the discovery panel is load bearing as it has a seperate chassis, but is the corrosion within a prescribed area (ie: within 30cm of abs pump, master cylinder etc) ??

steve

Re: mot corrosion query

Posted by Tom Williams on February 7, 2007, 7:00 pm, in reply to "Re: mot corrosion query"

Hi,

I'd need to see the Landrover but all normal rules apply regarding prescribed areas ( ie brake components etc).
With regard to the Mini the front wings/flitch panels do form part of the structure for the front subframe mounts. I haven't seen one on the road for years but used to pass only if substantial bracing bars were fitted.
In terms of competition use, I'm an MSA licensed scrutineer. Race Minis, ie. Mini Miglia/Mini 7even/Mighty Minis retain original steel panels.
A severly rusted wing wouldn't help in a collision, cutting off the front steelwork and replacing with floppy fibreglass may cause the passenger cabin to deform much more in a front end accident.

Tom W

Re: mot corrosion query

Posted by ian(n) on February 7, 2007, 10:22 pm, in reply to "Re: mot corrosion query"

Thanks for replies gents, as I say, different opinions abound here, it's not my mot station who started the query but they don't want to ring vosa & ask.
As I understand it re the mini, if you remove the front & replace with fibreglass, you have to install a bracing bar etc as stated.
The disco panel is indeed within 30cm of the servo etc but it's not load bearing (imho) & therefore not 'failable'?
the top part of the mini wing is within 30cm of the susp mtg etc again (imho) not load bearing?
I think I'd pass & advise but i'd want to check first!

cheers ian(n)

Re: mot corrosion query

Posted by Kevin Apps on February 7, 2007, 10:48 pm, in reply to "Re: mot corrosion query"

Ian,
As always on these thing,s very open to the tester. My biggest problem with corrosion is sill panel repairs, if a sill is repaired (basically a trim/styling feature) what is the rocker (force carrying structure) like !!!!! As the tester will never know.
Kevin.

Re: mot corrosion query

Posted by Andrew West on February 9, 2007, 9:46 pm, in reply to "Re: mot corrosion query"

Hello Ian,
I would fail it,if it was within 30 cm of the prescribed area on both vehicles,regardless of whether it was load bearing or not, but if you are in doubt you should pass & advise, in which case you pass the responsibilty onto the owner/presenter of the vehicle to get it sorted.
Regards, Andrew

Re: mot corrosion query

Posted by ian(n) on February 11, 2007, 6:45 pm, in reply to "Re: mot corrosion query"

Thanks for replies-i also posted the query on an mot only' forum with only one reply (pass & advise)
kevin, i haven't heard the the phrase rocker' since the film 'the french connection' when the cut the steps open!

)
the sill is the main structural element on the side though? anyway, i've visited the (new) station & offered my advise-the ve who first trained me said if in doubt imagine removing the suspect panel-would it affect the structural integrity? I personally don't think the aforementioned panels would, so pass & advise time i think.
thanks, ian(n)

Re: mot corrosion query

Posted by Kevin Apps on February 11, 2007, 7:08 pm, in reply to "Re: mot corrosion query"

Ian.
Showing my age

but i knew it as Rocker before POPEYE doyle. And it,s a very stuctral member, the outer sill is more a design feature.
If your are not sure, it,s PASS and Advise. Was it the MOT FORUM.??
Kev.

Re: mot corrosion query

Posted by martin beswick on February 11, 2007, 10:00 pm, in reply to "Re: mot corrosion query"

the old adage used to be ,if in doubt, throw it out, pass and advise is something that consumer pressure has forced the scared ministry to take up, no one will ever convince me that they will ever back the tester in any instance, cover your own back.!

Re: mot corrosion query

Posted by Tom Williams on February 12, 2007, 8:19 am, in reply to "Re: mot corrosion query"

Hi,

I think that in many areas of the country VEs will be fair to the tester, but like other things in life, it can be a postcode lottery.
On the last refresher we were told not to regard pass & advise as 'a get out of jail free' card.

Tom W

Re: mot corrosion query

Posted by Graham McNichol on February 12, 2007, 10:33 am, in reply to "Re: mot corrosion query"

Kevin, this is the MOT forum mentioned i think.

Link: http://motforum.proboards44.com/index.cgi

Re: mot corrosion query

Posted by ian(n) on February 12, 2007, 9:02 pm, in reply to "Re: mot corrosion query"

yes that's the mot forum-thanks for the replies, I've recommended ukat to the station.
popeye doyle (ian)

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