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Is this Right?

Posted by Peter Warman on December 6, 2008, 1:10 pm

Reported in the Daily Mail today (Sat Dec 6th)

Student killed after DIY repair

A young medical student replaced a rear wheel bearing on 93 VW Golf and the final result was the death of another medical student as the bearing collapsed and the vehicle left the road

The police vehicle examiner concluded that the bearing had been over tightened resulting in the bearing failure, he said "it was a relatively simple mistake by an inexperienced person"

The police decided to take no action against the student

I just wonder what the situation would be if and Independent garage technician had made the same mistake resulting in the death of a customer, would he also receive a slap on the wrist??

As a Automotive Technician, if i walked into the a hospital and carried out a minor op on a patient and they died a few hours later, would i be allowed to walk away?

Peter

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by Steve Nicholas on December 6, 2008, 1:34 pm, in reply to "Is this Right?"
Stephen Nicholas

Hi Peter.

A horrifying story there is no doubt.

As professionals I doubt we would be let off so lightly! Although knowing that your actions have cause another's death is hardly being let off lightly!

At the moment there is no means for controlling how work on cars is carried out, by whom and to what standards (as we well know from the protracted discussions here).

Regards,

Steve

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by Tom Williams on December 6, 2008, 5:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"
Tom Williams

Hi,

Whereas Do It Yourself surgery has never really caught on,amateurs have been repairing cars since they were invented. It's not likely (I hope)that any of us will operate on someone on the kitchen table. If a lot more deaths were caused by botched car repairs then I would think the law would be changed. Until then, from time to time, sad events like this will occur. Cynics have always said that doctors bury their mistakes, as I owe my life to a skilled surgeon and his team, I'm not one of them.

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by Graham Bullock on December 6, 2008, 10:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"
Graham Bullock

A sad story for all involved.

I really do think that no amount of legislation would stop things like this happening, unless you stop the general public being able to buy parts from factors or retailers and even then you would have to stop supply of second hand parts aswell.

I know I should not do any gas boiler repairs or wiring etc but I can go into most plumbing trade supplier and buy a new boiler pump, circuit board or gas valves, so who is to know what I am up to until something goes wrong?

It's a bit like - if it is illegal to carry big knives why is it legal to sell them.

Legislation would put the burden on the trade not the illegal diy mechanic so why not prevent diy repairs without burdening the trade, could this be done?

Graham

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by Peter Warman on December 7, 2008, 12:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"

Yes this is a sad story

But is it the system that is all wrong, or do we just put things right when enough people stand up and start shouting

The death of the student may be rare occurrence and a tragic DIY accident but so many other "One Off" tragedies have sparked off public feeling and anger and procedures or laws changed

It always seems to be the "Professional" that takes the hiding and dragged though the legal system and pay out hundred of thousands in compensation

If an Independent technician had over tightened the bearing due to lapse in concentration, then he would most probably been put before a court and his whole reputation scrutinised and pulled to pieces. The owner of the garage would also be question about procedures for checking work on completion. There result would probably have been some more "Red Tape" heaped on the motor trade

But as this was a "Tragic DIY Accident" by someone who has no experience with vehicle repairs it is just dismissed, would he have payed out for a £5,000,000 public liability insurance to compensate the other students family......i doubt it

Take the other night on BBC Watchdog, a maintenance guy who had stolen a fellow CORGI registered engineers identity, including having the cheek to put it on his van was outed. He removed the gas boiler cover (illegal) and proceeded to pretend it needed expensive parts it did not need, taking money up front (theft)..........and what was the outcome......two twits from the BBC taking the mickey out of the guy, then letting him drive off.......so why was he not nicked on the spot?, probably because he was unqualified and did not know his actions were dangerous, so he gets away with it.........or maybe a written warning from Trading Standards. I expect that made the REAL CORGI engineer feel great, knowing the thousands he had spent on COGI training was being taken seriuosly, and make any future customers of his very wary

Peter

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by aidan birley on December 7, 2008, 1:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"

Hi

This is a sad case for sure.

But in reality, there are D.I.Y car repairers that I know of and I would far rather trust to fix a car correctly than some so called professional repairers that have had contact with over the years.

Clearly members of this and other forums are professional in as much as the are devoting there own time to increasing there knowledge. They will also admit if they don't no something, the correct way forward is to find out !!

An old saying comes to mind,:-

" A fool is not a man the knows not, He is a man that knows not that he knows not. "

Until the trade puts it own house in order there is no practical way or point in stopping DIY repairs.

Just my thoughts

Cheers Aidan

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by jmccallum on December 7, 2008, 4:38 pm, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"
James McCallum

Hi ALL,
I would not want to stop DIY repairs, probably everyone here cut there teeth doing DIY on there own cars. As pointed out there are many DIY mechanics who are more competent than the cowboys running back street garages. I had a qualified technician sent to me for re training due to overtightening of the rear wheel bearings. This practice was widesperead throughout his dealership, he was the unlucky one, but obviously lucky no one was hurt. Maybe certain tasks on motor vehicles should be checked by competent people as is the case with house electrical wiring.
Just my thoughts.
James

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by Peter Warman on December 8, 2008, 2:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"
Peter Warman - Administrator

Hi Tom

"If a lot more deaths were caused by botched car repairs then I would think the law would be changed"

How many more do we need??

Death crash mans "incompetence"

Peter

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by Graham Bullock on December 8, 2008, 6:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"

I feel really sorry for the two girls in this report, they were doing nothing wrong, not speeding, no drink or drugs, car in good order, just unlucky.

The relevant paragraph is "PC Paul Davenport’s statement said tests found the car to be in good mechanical order, but the rear offside tyre was under-inflated by 34 per cent."

If the death of two girls depends upon a tyre being around 10 psi lower than it should have been, what should or could have been done to prevent this?

I ask this sincererly, as I am amazed how many vehicles I check the tyre pressures on to find they are set to 22 psi instead of 2.2 bar.

Should the public even be allowed to check pressures with the (usually faulty) forecourt equipment or is it just a matter of "there by the grace of God go I"?

Graham

Link: Canal tragedy

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by Steve Thompson on December 8, 2008, 6:44 pm, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"
Stephen Thompson

We had a 27 year old "technician" who overtightened this type of bearing (taper roller) on 2 seperate occassions. He was "talked through" the fitting procedure but obviously had no comprehension of this type of bearing. If the lads coming through training aren't taught about them what chance the diy-er?

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by Phil Dunmore on December 9, 2008, 10:36 pm, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"
Philip Dunmore

All tragic events, as much due to bad luck as anything else. For a mechanical fault to actually result in a death is bad luck. I am sure there are many vehicles in regular use with faults even worse than the ones detailed here. Sometimes the drivers are unaware, sometimes they don't care. Don't see how it can ever be eliminated. Human nature.

Tyre Pressures

Posted by Peter Warman on December 10, 2008, 6:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"

Hi Graham

I think you have highlighted a big problem, i had a 2003 Mondeo in today that had 22 psi all round, people are getting confused between psi and bar. Tyre safety is a big problem and probably causes quite a few accidents

Perhaps the Government or the Oil companies (Shell, Texaco, Fina and outlets like Tesco etc) should spend some of the millions they make in having a decent area with tyre pressure machines that display in just bar with a green, orange and red zone on the gauge to make it easier for drivers and a big sign also displaying the legal tread limit

Perhaps we could get a national news paper like the Daily Mail to publish a campaign

Peter

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by Joe McGeoghan on December 11, 2008, 11:00 am, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"
Joe McGeoghan

I agree, Phil.

Sometimes sh*it happens.

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by Paul Foster on December 12, 2008, 6:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"
Paul Foster

Just another point -

The landrover that crashed, causing the tragic deaths of those poor kids had been tested 7 months previously.

Under the proposed new 4-2-2 rules it woul not have been due for another test for another 17 months! How many more 'modifications' could have been carried out in that time? This threatened legislation seems to assume that everyone has their car serviced regularly - HA!

I believe that vehicles should have a periodic service, by a bona-fide garage, by law. Regardless of mileage. The present MOT does not even cover tyre pressures unless they are obviously flat.

The problem is that people don't understand that an MOT is a VERY basic safety check, not a service. I have a customer who couldn't understand how his car passed it's test with a slightly blowing exhaust and play in a ball joint and reported the tester (without my knowlege - I'm not a test station). The tester was cleared as the components were not 'exessively worn'. They certainly wouldn't have lasted 2 years though!

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by charles scatchard on December 12, 2008, 11:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"

Been looking through this post.

My thoughts.

Any road death is a tragedy especially if it is caused by vehicle faults.

But how many of us who enjoy our home DIY would be aggrieved if we were prevented from doing our own repairs and improvements.

I would expect a good vehicle technician to be capable of some wiring and pluming if they are prepared to research the relevant regs and techniques.
I know some tradesmen who are very capable with car repairs, its about knowing your own limitations.

I would imagine that the people who really are incapable would continue whether there was a law preventing them or not.

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by Colin Calder on December 17, 2008, 5:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"
Colin Calder

I'll just go and give that patient his injection,

even though I'm not a qualified nurse or doctor. Oh, does anybodyknow the dose?

Re: Is this Right?

Posted by Paul Foster on December 18, 2008, 9:51 am, in reply to "Re: Is this Right?"
Paul Foster

The Doctor or nurses sometimes don't know the dose! Just guess! Be reyt! (Yorkshire accent!)

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