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Peugeot 106 2002 HFX Bosch M7.4.4 - Starts but high tickover when warm - Fixed #

Posted by Peter Rainsley on December 14, 2008, 1:52 pm
Message modified by board administrator February 18, 2009, 3:22 pm

Car starts instantly, thinks about idle at 1100 rpm, but then goes rapidly up to 4,280 rpm! When warm it tries to idle at 1,800 rpm, but goes into over-run fuel shut-off, so hunts between 500 and 1800 rpm. A genuine MM ISCV had been fitted, to no effect. What readings I could get, poor MAP, low lambda output, made me suspect a massive manifold air leak, but cannot find one. The manifold has been removed for inspection and replacement of the manifold to head 'o' rings, and no different. I have managed to get a perfect idle at 840 rpm by hand setting the ISCV, and plugging the old ISCV into the harness to keep the ecu happy. MAP 400mb and perfect lambda response. I have had no fault codes at any time, apart from self-induced ones. I now suspect an ecu problem. Does anyone know if this can be flash programmed out, or is it a replacement unit?
TIA,
Peter

Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu

Posted by Sean Mc Gettigan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5291' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2008, 8:45 am, in reply to "Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu"
Sean McGettigan

Hi Peter, have a close look at the ignition primaries on this.Interferance will cause the problem you have.
Hth Sean

Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu

Posted by Peter Rainsley <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5418' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2008, 11:29 am, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu"
Peter Rainsley

Is this the Sagem coil pack problem I have heard about, but not seen refered to the 106?
Peter

Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2008, 7:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu"

>>>>>>>Is this the Sagem coil pack problem I have heard about, but not seen refered to the 106<<<<<

Most Likely Peter. P.S Did you recieve my E-Mail. ??

Tony.

Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu

Posted by simon dean <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5221' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2008, 8:45 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu"
Simon Dean

Peter
Apart from the usual coil inteference there is a huge reflash update for bosch 7.4.4 on all peugeot and citroen vehicles.

do about 10 a month

hth simon

Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu

Posted by jamie lambert <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1460' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2008, 9:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu"
Jamie Lambert

Hi Simon
What does this reflash cover? Im having problems with a 2000 year model, mainly with throttle sensor signal. Using peugeot planet looking in live data there is no sensor voltage. Checked sensor and all wiring all o.k could this be a reflash or an e.c.u problem? Thanks in advance.

Regards Jamie

Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu

Posted by Peter Rainsley <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5418' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2008, 10:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu"
Peter Rainsley

Sorry Tony, I hadn't seen your e-mail, but have now. From what I understand the problem occured suddenly, i.e.nothing had been done to induce it. The plugs are unipart. The ecu is obviously opening up the ISCV, would RFI from the coil cause this? Will this show up by 'scoping the primaries? Unfortunately the car is some distance away, and I haven't the facilities to do a re-flash. We are trying to keep it out of the clutches of the local, unhelpful dealer, suspecting that if we suggest a re-flash he will land up with a new ecu regardless. I will try and get back to it in the next couple of days and see if anything else becomes apparent, thanks for inputs,
Peter

Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 15, 2008, 10:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu"

>>>>>>>>>The ecu is obviously opening up the ISCV, would RFI from the coil cause this? <<<<<<

YES.

>>>>Will this show up by scoping the primaries?<<<

Don't know but its quicker to try a coil on it. ( and a Nice set of Bosch plugs )

i had heard that peugeot were reflashing ecus to cure the problem, but with the amount that fail after the reflash, i had assumed that it was just a delaying tactic to get it out of the warranty period. ( but usually Sagem or Marelli ecu's )

I will try a reflash when i get one in as i have never done one.

Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu

Posted by Derek Warwick <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5345' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on December 16, 2008, 8:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu"
Derek Warwick

I was wondering when Tony was going to suggest a set of Spark Plugs!
Derek

Fixed #

Posted by Peter Rainsley on January 3, 2009, 9:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu"
Message modified by board administrator January 9, 2009, 9:04 am

Fitted Electrofil coil and Denso plugs, sorry Tony, Bosch are a reluctant special order from suppliers around here. No difference. Sent ecu to ATP for test/repair. Diagnosed faulty and rebuilt unit sent by return. Fitted, car started instantly and settled into sensible idle, but cooling fan ran constantly, even with ignition off. Code P0117, CTS. Sure enough, CTS open circuit on earth return to ecu, but that was not so originally. No pin data, so spent two hours tracing green wires with little numbers on them back to the ecu. Then 'phoned ATP for help and got straight through to Mike Walker. Apparently half of these ecu's sent for repair suffer internal earth problems, and a small number blow another earth on re-fitting. He suspects wiring faults on the car, but have not been able to prove it. On his advice I wired the CTS earth to the MAP earth and all problems were solved. Thanks for all help and advice, Peter

Re: FIX! Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu

Posted by Michael Whitworth <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5568' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 4, 2009, 8:05 pm, in reply to "FIX! Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu"
Mike Whitworth - Administrator

Hi Peter,

Surely if this was caused by a vehicle fault, using the map sensor earth will blow another part of the ecu causing even more damage and problems for you?

Mike

M.O.M. Miserable Old Manc

Re: FIX! Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu

Posted by Peter Rainsley <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5418' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 4, 2009, 8:33 pm, in reply to "Re: FIX! Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu"
Peter Rainsley

Mike, that was my thought, but the fix has lasted over Christmas, and I am holding my breath, Peter

Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu

Posted by simon dean <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5221' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 9, 2009, 7:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 106, 02 plate, HFX engine, Bosch M7.4.4 ecu"
Simon Dean

Hi Jamie

been on a long holiday

unforunately i dont get a listing of what it resolves specificaly just a list of which ecu's will reflash to later software.

dont touch a 7.4.4 if you have no hard faults without a reflash first and see what happens

simon

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