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Vauxhall Corsa 1.0 3cyl X10XE 2000 - Lacks power on acceleration, code P0130 - Fixed #

Posted by Dave Mc gee on January 30, 2009, 7:01 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2000
Engine Code or Type *: X10XE 1.0 3cyl
( Optional ) Scanner used: Snap On Modis

Hi lads,
This came in with emissions failure,cant remember the readings.I reset the IAC and O2 adaptions and the emissions are good but its nearly undrivable,customer says it was always like this.(i didn't see it before).1 fault code,PO130 O2 low input.On acceleration the car dies down with a loud "droan" noise.I had coolant temp and crank position sensor faults so i replaced the sensors and faults did not reappear.I checked the exhaust and inlet for leaks,none found(smoke pro),pressure tested the exhaust & and drove with it loosened,checked fuel pressure OK,02 sensor is switching from 80-800 mv but occasionally sticks high.At one occasion on the test drive i got out and saw the exhaust glowing red which i think it means its running lean ?? Air flow reading is 1.5 v at idle and it revs up so slowly,about 4-5 seconds to 4000 rpm,its hard to see and sudden increase in the reading.
Can a o2 sensor cause these drive-ability problems or could this be the usual air flow meter fault ?
Sorry for the long post.
All input welcome.

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 30, 2009, 7:32 pm, in reply to "Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"
Tony Sefton

>>>>>>>>>> could this be the usual air flow meter fault <<<<<<<<<<<<<<,

Of Course it Could. Just try one on. Every busy Garage ought to stock a few AFM's for testing purposes. ( saves a hell of a lot of diagnostics and testing and nearly always cures them .)

H.T.H. Tony.

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by aidan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 30, 2009, 7:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"
Aiden Birley

Hi
Air flow meter and valve timing would be high on my list. what is the vac reading like on the inlet.
Aidan

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by Glyn Morgan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2543' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 30, 2009, 7:40 pm, in reply to "Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"

Hi Dave

I think you will find lots about this fault in the archives.

I have had this fault in the past and suspect the fault is the MAF sensor.

Using your Modis graph O2 sensor, tps, maf, engine speed together, under WOT you would normally see the O2 voltage rise.
In your case I suspect it will drop and stay at almost zero, this is where your code is being logged.

Also use the scope on your Modis and check the MAF output voltage on WOT, you want to be seeing over 4 volts peak( suggest 5 volts over 5 seconds timebase ).hth

Glyn

PS I must learn to type quicker Tony & Aidan beat me to it, if you do the above tests before & after fix you will have some good & bad examples for future reference.

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by dave mc gee <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1044' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 30, 2009, 9:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"

Thanks for the replies Aidan,Tony & Glyn,
Aidan,i didn't check the vac readings,but i will tomorrow and post the results.
Glyn,i tried to scope the AFM but it wont rev up quick enough in order to get a good graph.It takes about 4 seconds to get it up to about 3-4000 rpm,it refuses to go any higher unless i bring it up very slowly.
And Tony,yor right....i should have a few AFMs on the shelf but i only fit genuine ones and they are a bit costly to stock,i generally only get them as i need them.I normally confirm they are faulty with the scope but i cant with this one.Do you stock new or used ones ? The sensor is €420 plus the vodka so i wouldn't be able to stock it,i know where your coming from though.

Cheers,
Dave.

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by aidan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 30, 2009, 10:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"
Aiden Birley

Hi
These are well over priced by GM, you should be able to pick up a Genuine bosh for 1/2 the price.

I like to look at live data on road test.
with a good maf, full throttle should give just over 4 v and O2 sensor should read rich.

cheers Aidan

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by dave mc gee <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1044' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 30, 2009, 10:50 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"

Aidan,
As soon as i go to full throttle the car nose dives and looses all power and nearly stalls until i press the clutch.I will try what you suggested tomorrow,not sure if i will get a good result though.
I cant believe this girl thought this was normal

Cheers,
Dave.

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by aidan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 31, 2009, 7:51 am, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"
Aiden Birley

Dave

what does it do with the MAF disconnected

Cheers Aidan

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by dave mc gee <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1044' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 31, 2009, 10:34 am, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"

Good morning Aidan,
With the MAF disconnected it runs much better, but not perfect,i meant to post that last night.
I checked the vac readings and they were,
Idle 14 in.hg
Sharp rev 20 in.hg
It was also "popping" back through the inlet manifold and "backfiring" when i tried revving it hard from cold.
On test drive,with Modis connected,with WOT
Air flow-3.4v MAX and the 02 was flat-lined at 0v.
Hope this info might help !
Dave.

Cheers,
Dave.

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by aidan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 31, 2009, 1:42 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"

Dave

idle 14 in.hg
Sharp rev 20 in.hg

14 idle is far to low, should DROP on rev & increase on overrun

Are you sure that cat or exhaust are not blocked ? does the cat rattle ?

Are the vac readings the same with maf disconnected. ?

need to check compressions AND valve timing I think.

does O2 switch at idle ?

Maf voltage is low, but that may be due to low air flow, O2 voltage should be high on acceleration, but could be effected by misfire.

Has the Fuel, pressure and flow rate been checked ?

possible that the maf has been damaged by the popping back. could be more than one issue here.

cheers Aidan

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by John Cooke <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5461' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 31, 2009, 1:46 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"
John Cooke

Have you checked the CAT /exhaust for blockages?
The problem is most likely to be MAF,but worth a check.
HTH
John

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by dave mc gee <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1044' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 31, 2009, 5:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"

Hello again,
Thanks for all the input lads,
John,i checked the exhaust pressure with blue point pressure tester and all ok,but, to be sure i drove the car with the Cat loosened at the manifold and no difference & its not rattling.
Aidan,i carried out the tests that you mentioned,this time i checked the vac at the back of the manifold where the servo pipe goes on,the last time i checked it at the servo end of the pipe and forgot about the valve in the pipe,no major difference though.This is what i found,
Compression readings,
Cold cyl 1- 200 cyl 2- 200 cyl 3- 220
Hot cyl 1- 250 cyl 2- 250 cyl 3- 240
Vac readings
Cold idle 15 rev o overrun 23 in.hg
Hot idle 12 rev 0 overrun 23 in.hg
Hot 2,500rpm 18 in.hg
With the MAF disconnected the only real difference was at 2500rpm,it dropped to 13 in.hg
02,
02 is stuck at .3v at idle and at 2500 rpm.
Fuel pressure and flow rate,
Flow 1.3 lts @ 30 sec
Pressure 3.2 bar at idle and holding at 3000 rpm
Gas analyzer readings
Idle 2500RPM
CO 9.46 11.67 Lambda 1.47 1.27
HC 4 1
02 7.06 4.62
I hope this help clarify things a little better,at this stage i cant See the wood from the trees

.
Thanks again for all the help and input.

Cheers,
Dave.

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by Michael Whitworth <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5568' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 31, 2009, 6:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"

Dave,

(Ignore this post for now, see my other post)

Stick a MAF on it and stop muckin about, ring Seftons Auto electrical supplies in Barnsley, He could do you a good deal on MAF sensors.

ALL your symptoms suggest MAF to me incl the 0V o2 sensor reading and the low MAF output.

Is it worse from cold and gets a little better when warm? A car running as weak as this will give low vac at idle due to poor combustion efficeincy, the decell reading of 20"+ would suggest the engine is mechanically OK although there maybe more than one fault but "STICK A MAF ON IT".

Mike

M.O.M. Miserable Old Manc

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by Michael Whitworth <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5568' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 31, 2009, 6:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"
Mike Whitworth - Administrator

Dave, your post clashed with mine

Ignore my previous post for now.

Looking at those CO readings your car is overfueling if the o2 sensor is reading 0.3 when co is at 9 and 11% then the sensor is telling lies either due to wiring fault or duff sensor.

So sort this out next then reset adaptions and see how it performs. If after this you find o2 reading lean and co reading low then fit a maf!!

M.O.M. Miserable Old Manc

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by dave mc gee <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1044' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 31, 2009, 9:33 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"

Thanks Mike,
I don't know which post to ignore or what way to take them !
I will do as you suggested and post the results.I have ordered an 02 sensor as its sticking low,not sure if this is cause or effect though.If it needs a MAF i will pick one up then.
Thanks,
Dave.
"Muckin about over"

Cheers,
Dave.

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by lee mackintosh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 1, 2009, 1:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"
Lee Mackintosh

this maybe really stupid but can't you simulate the 02 sensor just to see what effect it has on the gas readings as i thought this was the purpose of sensor simulators. I would think the 02 sensor should react to lean/rich mixtures even with a poor functioning MAF sensor which don't normally log a code in my experience but seem to log 02 sensor code.

LTFT adaptions are normally a guide to faulty MAF sensors but this doesn't seem the case with yours as the 02 sensor isn't switching fom 0.3v so must be a fault with that. Have you tried squirting carb cleaner up air intake to see if 02 sensor reacts to rich mixture.

very basic but just a thought.

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by aidan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 1, 2009, 1:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"
Aiden Birley

hi

on the emissions is the reading you give CO or CO2 ?

Is there a specific cylinder misfire, or just general rough running ?

The O2 sensor can be tested out of the vehicle with a blow torch if you wish to confirm.

As others have implied, at the end of the day ( due to the cause & effect issue)the only 100 % method of eliminating a MAF is by substitution.

Most of us have ways of checking mafs, but even Frank Massy admitted be caught out by one in one of his articles!

Cheers Aidan

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by Tony Sefton <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5581' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 1, 2009, 7:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"
Tony Sefton

Also with the readings, Is the Exhaust leaking around the manifold or a cracked cat. ??

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by Christy Doyle <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1037' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 1, 2009, 9:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"
Christy Doyle

Dave,
Have you checked block connector over gearbox for oil ingress,although i think it supplies crankshaft sensor,injectors and egr valve not certain about maf.Maybe worth checking if you have not had a look at it already.
Regards,
Christy.

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by dave mc gee <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1044' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 1, 2009, 10:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"

Hi again lads,
Thanks for the replies,
Firstly,i don't have a 02 simulator,nice tip about the blow torch (necessity is the mother of invention).I have checked tje exhaust for leaks using Smoke Pro,but the exhaust was cold at the time so i will check it again tomorrow after a test drive.Christy,its the driest engine you could have,not a leak in sight.
I will post tomorrow evening,hopefully being a bit closer to sorting it out.
Thanks.

Cheers,
Dave.

Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##

Posted by Christy Doyle <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1037' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 2, 2009, 7:25 am, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"
Christy Doyle

Dave,
You need to open block to check if it is dry.I have seen several ones with substance like oil inside,even though externally engine would be dry around that area.Not sure how or where this finds its way in.Worth checking anyway,
Regards,
Christy.P.S. I have new maf if you want to try it.Give me a call,I dont think you are too far away.

Fixed #

Posted by dave mc gee on February 2, 2009, 1:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Vauxhall corsa ## Dying on acceleration ##"
Message modified by board administrator February 3, 2009, 12:46 pm

Hi lads,
Thanks for the offer Chrisy but i got sorted this morning.I fitted a new MAF and it made a new car out of it,emmisions are perfect and the 02 is switching perfectly ! I know it was suggested very early on by several people on this post,but to be honest..i didnt think a duff MAF would cause all these problems, "Every day is a school day".
I am working on getting some of the most common meters in stock for diagnostic purposes.
Again lads,thanks for all the input and help on this on.

Re: Fixed #

Hi Dave,

Glad to hear you stopped "Muckin about" (tongue in cheek)

and sorted this one, Knowing now that the MAF fixed it, your Gas readings were a little confusing but I guess we will never know now unless you got your CO and CO2 mixed up as lambda says lean and CO says rich??

Mike

M.O.M. Miserable Old Manc

Re: Fixed #

Cheers Michael,
Will take a look at readings again tomorrow to see where i messed up.They appeared different in the post from how i laid them out on my screen.I will post my findings.
Thanks again & chat soon.

Cheers,
Dave.

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