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Peugeot 205 1.6 1993 Auto - Ignition timing fault? #

Posted by Peter Holland on March 8, 2010, 7:15 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 1993
Engine Code or CC *: 1600

This car has come to us with a suspected starter motor fault, but its nothing to do with the starter, it appears to be a timing issue. This car has a coil pack but the symtoms are the same as produced by damp inside a distributor cap. When cranking, it appears that the timing is too far advanced or firing like the plug leads are fitted incorrectly and kicks back against the starter.

Its a 1.6 automatic with single point injection and if you disconnect the coil, it cranks over perfectly. I've scoped ignition primary and secondary patterns, crank sensor output looks fine, plugs and leads have been checked.

I'm stuck now.

Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?

Posted by mark carter <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 8, 2010, 8:07 pm, in reply to "Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?"
Mark Carter

Hi, what is the vehicle/work history ?

Regards mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?

Posted by Paul Howd <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5151' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 8, 2010, 8:13 pm, in reply to "Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?"
Paul Howd

Is it a "New" or "Old" starter?

ISTR the old Mk3 escorts had a problem a bit like this where worn brushgear on an older starter generated electrical interferance causeing random firing of the ignition system during cranking causing just the symptoms you describe.

Cant say whether or not this is your problem however. Have you tried using a strobe light during cranking to see what is actually happening to the timing?

Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?

Posted by Matt Booth <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3028' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 8, 2010, 10:06 pm, in reply to "Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?"

Start with the basics, most things are simple! I had a vehicle last week with timing way too advanced and so wouldn't start. Turned out it was just a vacuum leak. Presumably causing the MAP sensor to think the engine was under low load and so advancing the timing, along with the lean mixture of course.

Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 8, 2010, 11:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?"
Peter Mutlow

Evening Peter,

I had one of these with the same problem a few years ago. It was a manual and I think the GTI version. The fault though was intermittent and would do it 25% of the time. It had been to various garages around here including Main Dealers who diagnosed an ECU fault. I replaced the Crank Sensor all though it scoped OK when tested. Turned out the main dealers were right though

How does it drive? My one drove Ok.

Regards

Pete M

Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?

Posted by Peter Holland <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5256' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 9, 2010, 7:48 am, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?"
Peter Holland

Thanks for the replies chaps. The car drives fine with no misfires. It doesn't do it all the time, often it will fire up straight away, but you know when its going to play up as it seems to crank over for a few seconds before kicking back against the starter.

I remember the good old days of Mk3 Escorts doing this. I've tried repositioning the crank sensor wire to keep it away from the coil etc, but so far no good.

I will try sticking a strobe on it today though. The biggest problem I have is the girl who owns it doesn't have any money, so the enthusiasm is disappearing fast!

I know she hasn't owned the car long, so I don't know its history.

Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?

Posted by Graham Bullock <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2744' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 9, 2010, 6:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?"
Graham Bullock

I don't know if the same could apply to a Peugeot but I have read about aftermarket coil packs causing pinking on quite a few Ford Focus. Evidently some of the crap coils have poor or incorrect number of primary/secondary windings resulting in poor inductance or poor coil saturation or something. Genuine coil packs were the cure.

Has this had a coil pack fitted lately and what quality is it?

Graham

Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?

Posted by Peter Holland <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5256' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 10, 2010, 7:49 am, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?"
Peter Holland

Using Pico Scope, I've managed to capture a trace comparing crank and primary ignition patterns. This clearly shows that the ignition is being advanced by quite a few degrees on both coils when this fault occurs. I'll try and post a picture of this if I can figure out how to.

I have no idea why this is happening though.

Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?

Posted by dave cheesman <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1314' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 10, 2010, 9:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?"
Dave Cheesman

just a long shot, i had one of these several years ago now, that had a worn key way in the cam gear. It allowed the cam to advance and gave similar problems to yours. Took me ages to find this one and it is imprinted in my mind forever.

Dave

Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?

Posted by phil kingdon <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1433' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2010, 11:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Peugeot 205 1.6 auto ignition timing fault?"
Phillip Kingdon

Could the crank sensor be picking up a dodgey signal from damaged flywheel? Or some debris in bell housing?

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