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Volvo V70 2000 - Poor running under light load - Fixed #

Posted by Aidan birley on March 23, 2010, 8:15 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2000
Engine Code or CC *: B52244S2 , manual
( Optional ) ECU Type: Denso system
( Optional ) Scanner Used: Texa

Hi

This one has had an intermittent fault for about 4 months, today was first time I felt problem when driving. Feels like weak mixture issue on light throttle.

no fault codes stored today, but previously had a P 420.

Plugs changed, Coil packs swooped with known good. smoke test inlet OK, fuel pressure test, no drop when fault occurring.

scoped Maf slightly low 3.9 v but runs exactly same if disconnected. ( volvo £290+vat 1 week to get so would need to be sure )

fuel trims stay within 5% even on road test, O2 sensor also stay stable. (wide band )

looking for a bit of inspiration on this, Volvo parts to expensive to guess.

Cheers Aidan

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 23, 2010, 9:31 pm, in reply to "Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Peter Mutlow

Hi Aidan,

Assume vehicle drives OK apart from this fault. What are the emissions like and what plugs are fitted?

Regards

Pete M

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by Andrew West on March 23, 2010, 9:57 pm, in reply to "Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Message modified by board administrator March 24, 2010, 2:39 pm

Hello Aidan,
I would say the maf reading is too low , should be more like 4.5 volts, but the last one i scoped was a Bosch one, so can't be 100% sure.
Regards,Andrew

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 23, 2010, 10:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Aidan Birley

Andrew + Pete

Thanks for replies, I agree re maf voltage but would like to see supporting evidence e.g fuel trims or 02 sensor weak before committing to £300.

Car has NGK's, but these have been renewed and it has run OK on NGK's for last 150000 miles. Not done emission test today, but last visit was was well in MOT limits.

O2 sensor reading and trims stayed stable, even on road test when fault occurred, surprising as would have expected to run weak.

Cheers Aidan

Cheers Aidan

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by Sean Mc Gettigan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5291' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 24, 2010, 7:51 am, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Sean McGettigan

Hi Aidan

Most Volvo petrol AMM's I've tested/saved are all 3.9 - 4.05 volts max.
I've never seen an intermittant AMM fault, its either faulty or not.

Emissions are pointless for this as you'll be taking readings when there is no fault.
This needs tested when the fault occures, what is the front 02 sensor reading and the fuel flow (pressure is only half a test)when the fault occures?

Regards
Sean

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 24, 2010, 10:56 am, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"

Hi Aidan,

When I have a running problem with a vehicle, I like to have a full picture of what is happening and when I have that in front of me, I can make a considered decision on what step to take next. Part of that picture would be an exhaust emission test at idle through to fast idle. This might show something which will give you a clue on what direction to take next. An MOT emission pass will not show up high HC's or 02 at idle for instance. I would also want to do a compression test in case of an engine problem. Also, is this engine breathing heavily?

It is very difficult to replicate this problem in a workshop so I would want to have all the facts in front of me before I start spending money on expensive parts.

Finally, to give me breathing space and have a re-think, I would be tempted to try Forte treatment on it if its breathing heavily or at least stick some injector cleaner in it and see if there is an improvement - and go from there.

Best of luck

Pete M

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by James Scott <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3047' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 24, 2010, 3:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
James Scott

Hi

First thing i would check is the throttle body
for contamination there is also updated software costs about £1 !!

they play up no end i used to do atleast 1 a week

the air mass sould read 14kg/h ish on idle with the air con off it that helps

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 24, 2010, 7:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Aidan Birley

Hi
Thanks all for the replies.

not had much time to look today, just snatched 1/2 hour before closing.

Slackened the fuel cap off, and on road test fault was only just noticeable (not perfect), much less so than yesterday, not sure if that is just coincidence.

Checked fuel flow rate (good ) and for air content OK. this was workshop test, not ideal, but unable to flow test road test. ( this has no return from rail )

Pete despite high mileage, no undue breathing. not done compression test yet, but sweet as a nut at idle and due to intermittent nature, unlikely to be mechanical i feel . Does not feel like a sticking valve.

Sean thanks for info on air mas voltage, confirms my reluctance o condemn it

James, I am interested in you comment on throttle unit,This is an area i have been considering. I have cleaned it. Do the symptoms fit with your experience ?

Cheers Aidan

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by john white <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1071' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 24, 2010, 10:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Tony White

hi aidan

i agree with james, done a couple of these, if after cleaning throttle body the fault is still there,change throttle body,then you will have to go to a volvo dealer to have software upgrade, had to have one lifted there as it would not start after fitting a new body,other one drove bloody awful,cutting out etc, all ok after upgrade,hope this helps.
john

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 24, 2010, 10:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Mark Carter

whats the EGR doing?

Regards Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by Sean Mc Gettigan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5291' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 25, 2010, 8:20 am, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Sean McGettigan

Hi Aiden
James is right, if you have cleaned the throttle housing then you will need to get the engine + throttle software updated first before going any further.

Autologic SHOULD be able to do this provided its a version they have done prior to Volvo cutting off the software access.

Hth Sean

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by James Scott <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3047' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 25, 2010, 2:10 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
James Scott

Hi all
Aidan
The symptoms ive had range from non start to surging when driving on light load so its definatly a route to folow for me.

Tony
The software can overwrite in to original unit so replacing is a extream if its totaly failed or a large diference between TPS 1&2

Just a thought can you read the fuel trim adaption this may show a area of fuel trim where the airmass might be giving a incorrect signal
its not uncommon for a incorrect airmass but ive only had them do it across the range from idle a a limited output on road test

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 25, 2010, 10:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Aidan Birley

Hi All

Thanks for replies, very much appreciated.

No EGR on This, Fuel trims alway stay within 5 % Lambda sensor always between 0.485 & 0.515 on steady throttle, (wide band ) Not seen it stray even when fault occurs ( only had very mild symptoms when monitoring.

Interestingly, went for a run with Texa EOBD data log attached and it recored a fault P1603, throttle body fault. Fault code was not logged when problem occurring, but on Overrun. Why that has only now appeared I am not sure

I have arranged for a throttle body to be fitted next Wednesday (local dealer not very helpful) so will report back later.

Thanks Aidan

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by Sean Mc Gettigan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5291' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 26, 2010, 7:52 am, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Sean McGettigan

Hi Aiden

'I have arranged for a throttle body to be fitted next Wednesday'

Why not have the software update done first?

Regards
Sean

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 26, 2010, 6:29 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Aidan Birley

Sean

Sorry for my misunderstanding on this I assumed the software / programing went with new Unit, rather than a separate issue.

Thanks Aidan

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by Sean Mc Gettigan <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5291' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 26, 2010, 10:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Sean McGettigan

No problem Aidan

I've only ever had to renew one Volvo throttle but have done about a dozen software updates + throttle cleans successfully.

There are software updates for the engine ECU and throttle module itself on these.

Needs to be done before the throttle module can be condemmed.

Hth
Sean

Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing

Posted by Michael Whitworth <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5568' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on April 3, 2010, 1:48 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Mike Whitworth - Administrator

I agree with Sean,

I have had a couple of these that were virtually undrivable, with poor throttle response and low power (like 1 or 2 cylinders down). Also flagging codes for electronic throttle motor.

A good clean then reprogram with Autologic and alls well.

Mike

M.O.M. Miserable Old Manc

Fixed #

Posted by Aidan Birley on April 7, 2010, 9:41 pm, in reply to "Re: Volvo V70 light load poor runing"
Message modified by board administrator April 8, 2010, 3:08 pm

Hi

Dealer had a go at the throttle unit about 12 months ago ( EPC light on / limp ) so I assume any relevent updates for old unit would have been done then (dealer not helpful with information)

with this and vehicle milage (220000 Oringinal throttle) decided with owner agrement to have new throttle unit fitted.

Customer reported back car is now all OK,

Cheers Aidan

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