Ask and ye shall be given ..
I find the slurs and insults thrown Slavoj’s here very unhelpful, talk about shooting the messenger.
Messenger of what? Massaged liberal democracy from undemocratic EU on a leash to their hegemon boss Empire?
Not much in the way of nuanced argument here.
Because the commentators have immediately recognised the waffle and where he has gone wrong. Most haven’t got time to analyse waffling for the sake of odd dissenter. Time wasting.
It demeans you.
Ah, the truth in the eye of the beholder.
One of the points of contention is for instance Slajoj's [sic] thoughts about the blockade of Odesa and other ports and grain shipments. You say it's not Russia blockading them, but it’s Ukraine mining them. Well, isn't it cause and effect? Were there mines there before Russia’s invasion? Has Russia said to Ukraine and the West we'll not attack these ports if the mines are removed. Those mines are Ukraine's rational response to Russian aggression, surely.
If I was Russia, I would certainly control any traffic to and from Odessa even if it wasn’t stupidly mined by Ukraine. What do I mean by stupidity? Keep the mines anchored and not let it loose into the open water of Black Sea. Inadequate anchorage = danger to all ship traffic (Turks had to disable some near Bosphorus).
Secondly, Ukraine is shipping grain via Romania by rail and via Danube, despite the fact they shall need the grain for their own population since the harvest was understandably small by their standards. Well, they do have to pay for the arms shipment from the west.
It is though all a total mess, as all wars are, where morality is dead - as Slavoj points out Medvedev seems to be happy enough to have millions of poor and desperate people, particularly in Africa, starve to death as if that’s no concern of Russia or its actions.
You are forgetting a tiny little fact, that the Empire has sanctioned RF and they cannot use the international trading currencies nor are the RF ships safe and can be impounded by the Empire in ports. Theoretically and since RF has a bumper harvest this year, they could’ve taken care of the shortages.
That's a cynical cruelty as bad as Stalin's to Ukraine in the Holodomor or Britain’s in a previous century with the Irish famine.
I was under impression you have taken note of Der’s debunking of Holodomor in the thread where you have invoked that – carry on, if you wish to be hoaxed. Your choice.
Slavoj’s criticised about his proposed solution, using warships to force a corridor. He’s criticised for this so-called double standard, because since when have we, the “west, cared, “as if we’ve ever given a frick about them…..” and would the wheat even end up where it’s truly needed? Well, all that may be true, but it’s irrelevant to his argument; perhaps Slavoj does give a frick. He should be allowed to express his humanity, surely?
First, if Slavoj was paying attention and knew the elementary military strategy and geopolitical situation, he would know that forcing warships in that area would be declaration of war and WW3. Good luck with that. Secondly, Turks have closed the Bosphorus, so, it’s a moot point. What a completely idiotic suggestion by Slavoj!
He finishes with this line, a distillation of his argument: ``And the only way to defend what is worth saving in our liberal tradition is to ruthlessly insist on its universality. The moment we apply double standards, we are no less “pragmatic” than Russia.".
See above ..
Is this not true? And isn’t this exactly what we’ve (the “west”) been doing, applying double standards and employing a veritable army of hypocrisies, for so many years? And isn’t this exactly what contributors to this site have been bewailing about for all this time?
It is true that the hypocritical west has applied double standards and spread lies and killed approx. 20 million people in endless wars around the globe in the last 50 odd years. We are keeping tabs, don’t worry.
I would have thought that an avowed left winger like Slavoj (he calls himself a “communist” as a person who cares for the “commons” and because socialism is now just a more benign form of capitalism and no challenge to the status quo) would have enjoyed at least a bit of respect from posters here. But that’s us all the time, we’d rather throw bricks at socialist heretics than fascist enemies.
After this pathetic ‘analysis’ from him I decided Slavoj is not a communist (I thought he left the Party long ago or was thrown out) but a poseur and singing for his supper in the west (ta K264).
And one is never forced to attack or annihilate a whole country, Slavoj writes. I mean, are you arguing this? Was Putin / Russia goaded by the US and NATO and Ukraine? Yes.
RF gave written proposals about collective security in Europe in December last year. The Empire and their minions laughed at it. Donbass invasion was imminent after 8 years of bombing by Ukraine with invasion force of 150K odd military force. Even OSCE (NATO puppets) have recorded 17x more bombing by Ukie artillery of Donetsk just preceding 14th Feb. You have also missed biolabs and a nuclear threat by Zelensky?
And because Putin is a ruthless autocrat, with expressed grandiose ideas about a greater Russia, we should have known where this might lead.
I nearly spilled my tea there. Russia *needs* more territory? I am sorry but that’s just nuts. It’s the largest country in the world. Never mind the ruthless autocrat bit – a handy slogan for a mag like Breitbart News.
Many wise heads had done precisely this over many years. So we did know. And we (ie the neocons) almost certainly were more than happy to see this war and our inevitable sanctions to bring down Russia - so much for that. .
But was Russia actually forced to invade? Was there literally no alternative? What other things could they have done? There’d be quite a number. Perhaps cutting gas to Europe and supplies of oil might have been enough for force Europe at least to take a step back? Stopping supplies of wheat and raw materials to Europe and the US. I don’t know, these are counter-factuals that are not open to rational debate.
See above about bombing of Donbass etc. These measures you propose will really scare the Nazis in Ukraine : ).
But the fact is that Slavoj is, in this matter, right. The “existential threat” to Russia was not so immediate or dire to excuse in any way whatsoever the deaths of tens of thousands of Ukrainians and Russians, the destruction of cities and peoples’ homes, their livelihoods, their right to peace, the starvation of millions of the poor or the flight and terror of millions of refugees. - and the ultimate risk of a WW3 and a nuclear exchange. Attempting to excuse or rationalise Russia for its invasion is morally just as repugnant as Medvedev's lack of concern for the starvation of millions.
And finally Zizek continues on his trajectory as per this in his concluding para from 2014:
The Maidan protesters were heroes …
So much for the off-the-cuff Zizek (eyes roll).
Something tells me he hasn’t re-visited Maidan ‘protests’ history with Georgian snipers ripping bullets into both sides from the surrounding buildings.
Earlier in the same article, he said:
In Slovenia, the right is advocating the rehabilitation of the anti-communist Home Guard which fought the partisans during the Second World War: they made the difficult choice to collaborate with the Nazis in order to thwart the much greater evil of communism.
Ahem, young Zizek, the far-right in Slovenia were at the vanguard in the break-up of Yugoslavia. I recall the Nazi signs re-emerging there just prior to the secession of Slovenia egged on by Germans poodling after their USA hegemon boss. Just like Ukraine. Details Zizek, details.