Jones getting defensive... 📂 Archived Message Posted by Ian M on November 17, 2020, 10:47 am Pulling the trick of 'here's one time I mentioned the Palestinians' which is supposed to show evidence of ... balance or something when weighed against his continual endorsement of the a/s witch hunt and the stalinist tactics used to purge left wingers - and genuine supporters of the Palestinian cause - from the party. jeers, I ***** https://twitter.com/OwenJones84/status/1323221612540403712 jaice and the class warriors@jaissance · Nov 1 Stop being such a coward or shut the #### up for at least one day Quote Tweet Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Oct 31 This statement is absolutely spot on twitter.com/SocOfColour/st… Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 1 1) If people who oppose Corbyn's suspension while doing their best to listen to Jewish voices like Jon Lansman, one of the pillars of the UK left, are treated as enemies, the left has no future. 2) I'm such a coward I have to confront Nazi violence because of my leftist politics a$hok kumar @broseph_stalin · Nov 1 Shhhh Owen. Your empty endorsement of the statement is as worthy as your endorsement of Owen Smith & NATO. There are thousands who blame craven positions by influencers like you for what happened to the Corbyn project. You’ve been wrong on so much so I’d expect some humility ffs. Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 1 So there are two lies here. One is that I endorsed Smith, which you can't find any evidence for, because it never happened, and indeed I voted for Corbyn in both leadership campaigns. Two is on NATO (which I've only ever mentioned as not a hill to die on, which I stand by). a$hok kumar @broseph_stalin · Nov 1 Shameless. You spent 4 years systematically ignoring Palestinians & said opposing the NATO war machine, that literally murders thousands of black & brown people isnt “the hill to die on” - pls stop posturing as some kind of champion of the oppressed — it’s really embarrassing. Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 1 So you haven't withdrawn either lie, and Corbyn and his allies also decided that membership of NATO - which Labour committed to in both 2017 and 2019 manifestos - wasn't a hill to die on. Your latest lie is I've ignored Palestinian lives for four years. Quote Tweet Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · May 14, 2018 Dozens of Palestinians slaughtered by the Israeli state as the US government celebrates in Jerusalem is as repulsive a sight you'll ever see - but the truth is Palestinian lives matter little, they are low in the hierarchy of deaths, and the outrage will be muted. corbynch @socialisthijabi · Nov 1 Owen please. You don’t listen to Palestinian voices, you join forces with the ppl trying their best to silence Palestinians far more often than you extend solidarity to the Palestinians. Please don’t call yourself a Palestinian ally. It’s insulting to actual allies everywhere Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 1 If I'm not a Palestinian ally then what exact threshold are you setting and how on earth are about 99.99% of the population able to meet it GAZA DEBATE-QUESTION TIME OWEN JONES AT HIS BEST Copyright Disclaimer Under Section 107 of the Copyright Act 1976, allowance is made for "fair use" for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, t... youtube.com Julian Lacey @simulacrax · Nov 1 Do you support the right of Palestinians to articulate their own ethnic cleansing as a racist endeavor? corbynch @socialisthijabi · Nov 1 What about a one-state solution and the right of return for Palestinians? Cos that’s what the vast majority of them fight for. Not just an end to the bombs. Didn’t Owen want Labour to adopt IHRA definition? Even tho Palestinians said it silences them on their own oppression? Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 1 This is what I wrote in my recent book on that specific issue. [text image reads as follows: Things get even messier. Some cynically deploy the charge of antisemitism to shut down legitimate criticisms of oppressive policies pursued by Israeli governments. The Israeli prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, is among those who have falsely denounced the international Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement as 'antisemitism in a new garb'. Jewish critics of Israel are smeared as 'self-hating Jews'. The establishment of a unified secular state of Jews and Palestinians may be a far-fetched proposition, but it is still a legitimate belief; nonetheless, it is again often treated as an idea beyond the political pale. Palestinian voices are sidelined. Then there are those whose denunciations of Israel are expressed in antisemitic terms, or are simply motivated by antisemitism. Whether or not their sympathies with the plight of the Palestinian people are genuine, those who talk of an all-powerful 'Jewish lobby', or of the Israeli state acting as a sinister global puppet master, have embraced one of the most obvious antisemitic tropes.' ] On IHRA - which I did a video on from the Palestinian perspective at the time - - I wrote: "Corbyn’s Labour did not have the political capital or space to engage in this debate" Julian Lacey @simulacrax · Nov 1 I see that, I understand, but what about the validity of the controversial examples in IHRA itself? Is your answer that you don't want to answer? Because it is important! Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 1 That I believe the criticisms were well-founded - hence I was the only UK columnist to offer a platform to Palestinian objections - but didn't believe Labour had moral authority to object to examples it was always going to back as indeed it did Ed McNally @edmcnally96 · Nov 1 Did you tweet out this important letter from Palestinians (published in the Guardian, in July 2018) at the time? You could always do so now if not, it’s just as relevant. Quote Tweet Ed McNally @edmcnally96 · Oct 31 This July 2018 letter from the Palestinian community in Britain should be widely re-read: “We write to provide news of our existence, in the face of current attempts to negate it.” https://theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/31/palestinians-in-the-uk-speak-out-for-the-right-to-freedom-of-speech Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 1 I retweeted it at the time and it is striking that you regard the fact I used my platform to do an entire interview for The Guardian with one of the signatories of this letter about the problems with IHRA examples as less relevant in your attempt to portray me as a rightwing dupe Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 1 I've passionately backed the Palestinian cause to millions on television, repeatedly used my column to raise the Palestinian cause, signal boosted Palestinian voices objecting to the IHRA, and still you portray me as an enemy of the Palestinian cause. What even is the point? josie sparrow @ofthesparrows · Nov 2 the point is that being in solidarity with oppressed ppl around the world does not involve the demands for thanks & plaudits, the “everything i’ve done for you people” affect with which you now regularly browbeat anybody who disagrees with you. happy to clear this up. Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 2 What you are saying here is that if, as in this case, two published authors and academics make accusations about me - one of whom has objectively lied - and I attempt to defend myself by pointing to my actual work and positions, then that is bullying. This is Kafkaesque. a$hok kumar @broseph_stalin · Nov 2 The ####? You oppose BDS & backed IHRA that means you dont support Palestinians. Simple as. You were fine with NATO & sat on the fence during the coup then supported Clive Lewis piling on the attacks. You lie then boldly claim it’s others that are lying. It’s obvious to everyone. Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 2 Hold on, I support sanctions and boycotts, but Corbyn doesn't support BDS so where does this leave him? Does that mean he doesn't support Palestinians? What about Karie Murphy or McCluskey on IHRA? Support for NATO (which I've never offered) was in the 2017 and 2019 manifestos. Owen Jones @OwenJones84 Replying to @OwenJones84 @broseph_stalin and 5 others You've repeatedly lied in this thread, and given you don't behave in this completely unreasonable manner in real life I'm going to have to conclude this is entirely performative on Twitter, but why are you condemning me for positions held by Corbyn and his own closest allies? a$hok kumar @broseph_stalin · Nov 2 Replying to @OwenJones84 @ofthesparrows and 4 others Last time I saw you in person in the summer i explained to you how disappointing your cowardice had been. There you go again Owen, lying. Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 2 In real life you're friendly and comradely even when you express your disagreements with me, and you listen when I clarify what I actually think. Online you behave like a brocialist on a testosterone high making demonstrable things up, presumably for clout. So let's leave it. a$hok kumar @broseph_stalin · Nov 2 You’re in my replies Owen consistently. In person you’re just as petulant. Why cant you take criticism? Ive never replied to any of your tweets. The levels of narcissism to believe that political critiques are levied for clout. Stop replying if you think it’s for that you weirdo. Will @will_lds · Nov 2 Can you guys calm down it’s stressing me out ***** Another thread... ***** https://twitter.com/jpjanson/status/1323305714643775488 J.-P. Janson De Couët @jpjanson · Nov 2 A lot of people are angry with @OwenJones84. He's not an MP - he's an author, journalist and broadcaster. He has his opinions not all of which I agree with. He's not actually in charge of anything. Can we stop taking left wing anger out on him and focus it on MPs? Just a thought. Mrs Gee Ex Labour #WeAreCorbyn @earthygirl011 · Nov 2 We're angry because he appointed himself head of the left but frankly every time he's been tested he's been found wanting. And he's too quick to treat people like absolute shit on his shoe. People like Chris Willamson. He earned our anger tbh J.-P. Janson De Couët @jpjanson Replying to @earthygirl011 and @OwenJones84 I would never try and forbid people from being angry or to try and minimize their reasons. That wasn't the intention of my tweet. I was just wondering if peace could break out. Apologies. Mrs Gee Ex Labour #WeAreCorbyn @earthygirl011 · Nov 2 Peace would break out if he stopped thinking he was in charge of left opinion J.-P. Janson De Couët @jpjanson · Nov 2 I haven't really got that impression but maybe I'm not very observant. Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 2 I certainly don't think this. I'm just a leftwing commentator saying what I think: anyone can take it or leave it. I really think an online faction have developed a obsessive angry fixation which is profoundly unhealthy for themselves if nobody else. Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 2 (and neither am I going to apologise for supporting the completely correct action taken by Corbyn's Labour against Chris WIlliamson, and I continue to be bemused at the people more furious at me for this correct action than the people responsible for this correct action) J.-P. Janson De Couët @jpjanson · Nov 2 Thanks for the replies. Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 2 Replying to @jpjanson My main concern with the really very angry obsession some have developed online isn't just that their wasting their life - if they think I'm a right-wing careerist, why not just ignore me? - but rather how they think they're going to appeal to people outside the left Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 2 I'm in the 27.6% of Labour members who voted for Long-Bailey to be leader, and in the 13% of the general public who thinks Corbyn's suspension was the "wrong position" (YouGov). If they see me as politically beyond the pale, where does that leave the membership or the public J.-P. Janson De Couët @jpjanson · Nov 2 I think the fury of Corbynistas, including myself, shouldn't be underestimated. I'm not a spokesperson for them, but I suspect that (a) a victory for Labour right now would not be a victory for the left and (b) there are people who ought to answer for Labour election losses. Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 2 I understand the fury, but at the moment this fury is being directed at targets ranging from me to Corbyn's closest parliamentary ally to the founder of Momentum. It's the sort of fury which will repel people who voted Corbyn then Starmer. It's just angry self-marginalisation. Owen Jones @OwenJones84 · Nov 2 (and obviously anyone on the left should want Labour to replace the Tories and organise to put pressure on a Labour government) elizabeth the dangerous librarian @stomachonlegs · Nov 2 I don’t want A Labour govt with @Keir_Starmer as PM. It would be as corrupt as current govt only more sly. J.-P. Janson De Couët @jpjanson · Nov 2 I'm afraid I agree. I don't agree with those that say that "thinking like this" is some sort of marginal Tory-enabling naval gazing. Enabling centrists to get rid of monsters is pointless if one has to dump socialism, IMHO. Maybe I'm naive. Charles J - #MMT @Charles68431225 · Nov 2 We should never give Labour a blank cheque. The must earn our vote, or else they will simply become a right wing party again. Message Thread: Jones getting defensive... - Ian M November 17, 2020, 10:47 am « Index   Searching