Re: Yet another misrepresentation Mark. Any more of this and you'll out-Johnson Archived Message Posted by Ian M on July 8, 2022, 7:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Yet another misrepresentation Mark. Any more of this and you'll out-Johnson" From the graun article: 'The entire system of food production, such as the use of farming machinery, spraying of fertilizer and transportation of products, causes 17.3bn metric tonnes of greenhouse gases a year, according to the research. This enormous release of gases that fuel the climate crisis is more than double the entire emissions of the US and represents 35% of all global emissions, researchers said. [...] The paper’s calculations of the climate impact of meat is higher than previous estimates – the UN’s Food and Agricultural Organization has said about 14% of all emissions come from meat and diary production.' Indeed, I'm going to see how they arrived at this figure given that the FAO figure itself is likely an overestimate. It hinges on how you calculate the 'global warming potential' of methane - the much-maligned burping and farting of ruminants - and how this subsequently acts in the atmosphere. Briefly, the counter-argument goes: methane cycles in and out of the atmosphere within a few decades so the warming effect is linear (add more cows => get more methane => increased warming; take away cows => get less methane => decreased warming) whereas CO2 stays in the atmosphere for hundreds of years so the effect is cumulative (add more tractors => get more CO2 => increased warming; take away tractors => get slightly less CO2 => increased warming) Don't know if Monbiot or the Nature paper address this (haven't built up the patience to engage with his latest 'regenesis' stuff; can't access the full paper via sci-hub yet) but the shallow discussion of emissions from cattle would indicate not. 'A single kilo of beef, meanwhile, creates 70kg of emissions' they say, but which emissions and is that the same for beef produced in a CAFO fed entirely on corn, grown elsewhere and trucked in vs pasture-fed beef eating grass where it lives? The image in the article of a 'feedlot in Colorado' which 'can hold 98,000 cattle' suggests their calculations are based on the former, tarring all cattle with the same brush... Discussed in depth here: https://www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/articles/convenient-untruth-1 https://www.thelandmagazine.org.uk/articles/grass-fed-guilt-free cheers, I Message Thread: GG last nite - Keith-264 July 7, 2022, 1:29 pm Schadenfreude a-go-go....nm ;O) ;O) ;O) - Keith-264 July 7, 2022, 1:41 pm Re: GG last nite - Mark Doran July 7, 2022, 7:20 pm Yet another misrepresentation Mark. Any more of this and you'll out-Johnson - scrabb July 8, 2022, 1:36 am Re: Yet another misrepresentation Mark. Any more of this and you'll out-Johnson - sinister burt July 8, 2022, 7:59 am Re: Yet another misrepresentation Mark. Any more of this and you'll out-Johnson - Ian M July 8, 2022, 7:37 pm *need* to see (nm) - Ian M July 8, 2022, 7:39 pm Link to paper - Der July 8, 2022, 11:18 pm Useful Real Climate discussion: "The definitive CO2/CH4 comparison post". - Der July 9, 2022, 8:03 am Thx Der, will take a look... (nm) - Ian M July 9, 2022, 9:45 am   Searching