- Paul Kingsnorth's awful ignorance and rudeness Archived Message
Posted by Ian M
on July 21, 2025, 11:36 pm, in reply to "Dark Mountain finally says something about Gaza"
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(co-founder of DM). Did a search of his substack out of interest, and he hasn't mentioned the genocide in any of his own posts. He has thrown various tantrums in the comments section at people challenging him to take a side, eg: this from the end of Oct 2023 (sparked off by a certain David Macilwain who used to contribute here): ***** https://paulkingsnorth.substack.com/p/bridget-and-the-eel/comments David Macilwain 29 Oct 2023 Dear Paul, I love your tales and photos of Ireland's religious sites and relics, but feel obliged to point out that Christians along with Muslims are being slaughtered in Gaza with our connivance by the Zionist state, in a second Nakba. You MUST take a position on this, as Ireland has notably done at the UN, by demanding an immediate ceasefire. Jules 29 Oct 2023 Does he? Does anyone have to do anything, in the end? Maybe Paul has done his bit in the activist wars - and maybe his stepping into those troubled waters will solve nothing for anyone, and just provide occasion for more contention and conflict and rage. Isn’t that a big part of all our scepticism around social media? Better to step into sanctified waters such as these... perhaps that’s the point, after all. Maybe just doing this is Paul’s bid for quiet sanity in an insane world. Maybe this *is* his new ‘activism’? Personally, I’m all for it. A piece on 17th century garden engravings as his next offering would be just my cuppa tea. Sorry, Paul - you’re more than capable of responding for yourself. This is my response…) David Macilwain 29 Oct 2023 That's fair enough Jules, and my apologies for being a little overbearing - I just wanted to raise the alarm about what is happening, as Israel commits a genocide under our noses and with our approval, (though not with Ireland's - but I'm in Australia) Many people will be caught when it all blows up in our faces, not knowing who is at fault - but it could still be stopped I believe, if we ALL woke up and joined the protests. Jules 29 Oct 2023 It’s a horrifying situation, and we all wish it would end. My sense is that none of us really knows the truth, and taking sides in such conflicts is a mug’s game if you’re not actually caught up in it. What the world needs now above all is less views and opinions, less shrill activism - more options for liberation, joy, and true civilisation. Though in truth I fear now that action will be forced on us all soon in our *own* homelands: it’s on our own countries (primarily) that we now need to focus, because so much is being pulled apart and pushed over by malevolent actors. We must focus *at home* first, urgently, before taking sides on issues in far distant lands. For most of us our work is now in ourselves, in our own hearts, our own towns, cities and countries. The emergency for us now is all too local. Most big, abstract international issues will only serve to distract us from how our own foundations are falling apart. Paul Kingsnorth 29 Oct 2023 I feel obliged to point out, as I have pointed out here many times recently, that this Substack is not a place for people to argue about the middle east, and I am frankly tired of people hijacking my comment sections to do so. If it continues, I am going to turn off the comments until people either calm down or go elsewhere. This is my Substack, and I write what I want. Nobody gets to tell me that I 'MUST' do anything, let alone take whatever position they happen to believe in. What efficacy, honestly, do you really imagine that a largely unknown English writer living in Ireland is going to have by 'demanding an immediate ceasefire'? What makes you think I even agree with your take on the 'Zionist state'? A state which, may I remind you, has just seen over a thousand of its civilians tortured and murdered? Comments about holy wells are more than welcome. David Macilwain 29 Oct 2023 As my original comment was addressed to you, and I had no intention of 'hijacking' your comment section, I hope you will allow my response. First, this is not about the 'Middle East', but about the heart of Christianity, the source of inspiration and devotion for saints and followers, with the old city of Jerusalem or Al Quds being the site of terrible battles during the crusades, but now again in this modern crusade. I'm not a follower of either Christian or Islamic faith, but have visited many modern and historic religious sites in Europe as well as across North Africa and West Asia, including Turkey and Iran, studying and photographing remarkable building and art - including neolithic and Roman constructions. Thus my interest in your own explorations and photography, which as you say is entirely your business. Years ago there was a movement - PACBI - the Palestinian Academic and Cultural Boycott of Israel - which tried to counter the Zionist use of this area to spread its toxic influence, and gain support for the 'Israel project' - that which we can see today being realised, in what Netanyahu has called Israel's second War of Independence, and involving the expulsion or slaughter of Palestinians from their historic homeland. PACBI was also a recognition of the fact that writers and artists, chefs and musicians can exercise great influence on public opinion - something demonstrated by Roger Waters as well as Justin Bieber. So I don't dismiss the possibility of your influence as a 'largely unknown English writer'. But one should also remember Desmond Tutu's most famous quote, seen recently at Palestinian support rallies, that "If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor." I am, by the way, also a 'largely unknown English writer', but also largely excluded from the Western world's literary bubble for pursuing the truth of our war on the Global South, as well as pursuing the truth on the great COVID scandal - which is how I came to your 'Abbey'. I won't make any more comments here, and I would encourage others not to express their opinions either; nothing is worse than seeing comments diverted completely from the original point of the article. Paul Kingsnorth 30 Oct 2023 I don't use the word 'Zionist', neither do I like it, and neither do I believe that those who use it are very interested in justice. The Tutu quote is simplistic in the extreme. The middle east is a vastly complex situation which I know very little about. I instinctively avoid ideologues on both sides. But since you're so concerned with injustice, take a look at the rampant anti-semitism currently coursing across Europe. Like I say, it's a hornet's nest, and I'm not interested in exploring it here. ***** and this response to someone objecting to his collaboration with Bari Weiss: ***** https://paulkingsnorth.substack.com/p/the-monthly-salon-march-d28/comments JK 28 Mar 2024 Bari is a Zionist backing the current genocide. Gross. William cordasco 29 Mar 2024 Thanks for that. I don’t think most folks know about these issues as they are swept under the rug, along with the deaths of our own military personnel and countless innocents. As you can see from my comments to Paul, and his unfortunate reply, the spell you refer to is very, very powerful. I love my country, but it is getting harder and harder. William cordasco 29 Mar 2024 Hi- What I love about my country is, I suppose, what most people care for- a geographical rootedness to the good familiar; my neighbors (even those who wish me ill, if any), the land/nature of the place, the little things that formed my existence, my kin…. I despise my government and much of its past and current malfeasance oft done to promote the gain of wicked people or “our precious democracy”. The supporters of this death culture are quick to label opponents as violent extremists, mental cases, radical bomb throwers, and the like- nowadays, with the advent of AI and who knows what the Machine can engineer you (so to speak) to be first cousin to Herman Goering or something that fits their plans. Speaking as an Orthodox Christian, all of this crap is and should remain terra incognita-the hatreds, the labeling, the endless wars, the lies upon lies…. I hear no one speaking of peace. All about the narrative, and God help you if you are on the other side if that. Paul Kingsnorth 29 Mar 2024 That spell has never had any effect on me, as you'll know if you know of my work going back nearly three decades (there is no reason you would have read my early books, of course.) The US has indeed been a blight on the world in foreign policy terms, and my country, Britain, has tagged along on its coat tails. However: this does not lead me to conclude that Israel's enemies are my friends. The whole thing is a hot mess, but here we are. Blimbax 31 Mar 2024 The thing about a "spell" is that those who are under the influence of one often are unaware of it. Paul Kingsnorth [responding to JK's original comment] 29 Mar 2024 Do me a favour: please provide your definition of 'Zionist' for me and my readers. Jules 29 Mar 2024 And, um, genocide. Paul Kingsnorth 29 Mar 2024 I was coming to that next... William cordasco 29 Mar 2024 Hi Paul. I don’t know much about Bari Weis, and don’t want to step into a war of whose definition of what gets a win on this stack, but my understanding of what Zionism means is a movement of Jewish people from the various parts of the diaspora to some greater Israel, defined as a place from say modern day Iraq to the Med. The founders of the movement (e.g., Herzog) were not theists, bur atheists, but who nevertheless used Judaism as a lever to promote the movement among those who did. Whether intentional or not, the “repatriation” involved moving others out of the way, oftentimes by force. The Palestinians, while not a racial group but an ethnicity, got the short end of the stick. This led to the rise of violence in reply, much like how the Mafia arose in Sicily as a rebellion against the overbearing French occupation. As far as genocide, I rather would call it ethnocide, since Israel has not called for murdering all Arabs. However, kind of hard to refute a “cide” of any definition when listen to the Israeli leaderships’ statements, and those of people in this country (Jared Kushner for example) that Gazan land is prime real estate. I recommend to you Max Blumenthal’s 51 Day War for some background. In Britain, George Galloway has much background on this subject. No hate mail, please. Blessed Pascha to you. Paul Kingsnorth 29 Mar 2024 I don't want to step into a war either. But if you are suggesting that the Jews (as usual) are trying to murder all the Arabs to get their hands on some 'prime real estate' ... and especially if you are suggesting this without any mention of the fact that every Arab country has vowed to wipe out the entire nation of Israel since 1948, and has often tried to do so ... it is difficult to take your case seriously. In terms of the history of Israel - all of this may be true, but at this point it is largely academic. 'Zionism' means 'support for the state of Israel.' If you oppose 'Zionism' in 2024, you oppose the existence of that state. It is, in my view, then incumbent on you to spell out what that means in practice. In my experience, people are reluctant to do this, preferring to use code words like 'Zionist' to cover their tracks. Speaking as a Brit, you ought to probably be made aware that George Galloway is a man who is really not to be quoted on this or any other subject. He's a self-promoting fanatic who is probably most famous for praising Saddam Hussein and promoting ethnic division for his own benefit. None of this is to defend the current Israeli government's actions in Gaza, which are appalling. But they are not happening in a void either. There is no good or easy way out of the situation in the middle east at this point. William cordasco 29 Mar 2024 I am disappointed in your reply, though I have always promoted your work and have great affection for you and what you espouse through your work and conferences. Having said that, how does one explain the many Jewish people who oppose Zionism as not comporting with their values, including Max Blumenthal, Aaron Mate (Canadian), Katie Halperin, Jill Stein, and Glen Greenwald, to name a few who opine on this issue. There is serious debate over here on these subjects, and I think it is unfair to categorize opponents as anything other than critics. It is an old canard to say anyone who opposes Zionism wants Israel wiped out. Like saying supporting Irish independence meant death to all Protestants. What Israel does or doesn’t do is really up to them, but know that we in the US have many problems, and outright military and financial support of any nation state, Israel or any other is not what our founders had in mind and should not be coerced one way or the other; we’re also going broke BTW. As for the Arab nations and their calls for Israel’s destruction, note that none have done anything for the Palestinians, who are the focus of the discussion, and not the other peoples of the region. Paul Kingsnorth 29 Mar 2024 Well, this is why I asked Josh for a definition of the word, which he has not yet provided after leaving his inflammatory comment. I hear a lot about being 'anti-Zionist but not anti-Israel/Jewish' but I do not know what this statement actually means in practice, and would genuinely like to hear someone explain it. In the absence of such an explanation - and given the horrific levels of anti-semitism around at present, as well as the tendency of people to accuse others of supporting 'genocide' at the drop of a hat - I am suspicious of the motives of those who use this word. Maybe that suspicion is unwarranted in many cases. And I am no supporter of what Israel is currently doing. I don't see this as a case reducible to soundbites, however. William cordasco 29 Mar 2024 Paul, also in re Saddam Hussein, we backed him and his odious regime for years as long as he fought Iran, a nation we and Britain had dirtied up (promoting the Shah and ousting Mossadegh). This is part of my point; keep out of these various adventures embarked upon to make millionaires billionaires… Paul Kingsnorth 29 Mar 2024 I quite agree. UK/US foreign policy is certainly at the root of much of this. I've never been any defender of that. On the other hand, my enemy's enemy is not necessarily my friend. My policy personally is always to stay out of it ... JK [replying to PK] 30 Mar 2024 Because I have a real job and can't respond instantly to online philosophers arguing about bullshit. Paul Kingsnorth 1 Apr 2024 That's a relief. I feared for a moment that you might be a cowardly anti-semite deliberately using imagery redolent of Nazi crimes to libel a Jewish journalist. I'm glad that the very important world of biochar could spare you for long enough to explain why this is not the case. JK 30 Mar 2024 No, I will not do your homework for you. But I will give you a clue to start out: https://thegrayzone.com Look at their coverage and see if you can debunk it. You are a British ex-pat living in Ireland - do you know the history of the Irish people's solidarity with the Palestinians? If you are going to wade into the territory you'd better know the history. Paul Kingsnorth 1 Apr 2024 Edited I know very well what 'Zionist' means, just as I know what 'genocide' means. I just wanted to hear you justify your own use of these words. I was 90% sure you would be too gutless to do so, and it looks like I was correct. I've met plenty of people like you before. The person 'wading into the territory' of the middle east conflict here is you, my friend. I never write or talk about it, largely because I have no expertise on the subject. I imagine this also applies to you. As for Ireland: I'm an Irish citizen, and this country is my home. As such, I am capable of distinguishing between the Irish state and the Irish people. This would be something worth you thinking about, if you were the thinking type. Now, back to Twitter with you. ***** Standard centrist racism, cares more about the fake a/s stories in the affluent west than the murder of Palestinians, pretends that 'it's complicated' but refuses to look into it just in case it isn't, throws around a/s accusations like confetti but then gets all shirty about someone calling out his pal Bari Weiss (the dreadful hack whose smears probably led to the murder of Refaat Alareer - https://www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk/article/refaat-alareer-in-memoriam/ - this happened before PK's interview by Weiss, who 'turns out [...] is a longtime reader') - suddenly that's 'libel'. F* off Paul. Also note the silence on israhell's grim usage of AI to decide who shall live and who shall die. Not a peep from mister 'resist the machine'. Clown. jeers, I |