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    Re: P.Kingsnorth's book is out 📂 Archived Message

    Posted by Ian M on September 26, 2025, 12:27 am, in reply to "P.Kingsnorth's book is out"

    Went down a wikipedia rabbithole on pagan vs christian attitudes to holy wells, and while it seems to be a contested view that early christians appropriated the earlier tradition by stamping their brand on it, there's a fair amount of evidence supporting pre-christian views of water as sacred, especially sources, so it's hard to see where else the idea would have come from.

    I thought there were some rich ironies in this PK article:

    https://paulkingsnorth.substack.com/p/patrick-and-the-pagans

    ...where he goes to a well dedicated to St. Patrick on St. Patrick's day, problematically laments the fact that many Irish priests nowadays come from Nigeria (but they might be repaying the favour of Irish missionary activity in their country!), and closing with lines from the 'Lorica' of St. Patrick, aka 'St. Patrick's Breastplate', which, while it decries elements of paganism:

    6. I have set around me all these powers,
    Against every hostile savage power
    Directed against my body and my soul,
    Against the incantations of false prophets,
    Against the black laws of heathenism,
    Against the false laws of heresy,
    Against the deceits of idolatry,
    Against the spells of women, smiths and druids,
    Against all knowledge that binds the soul of man.     - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saint_Patrick%27s_Breastplate

    Is very obviously borrowing its incantation style from pre-christian irish poetry or protective spells of some kind.

    Kingsnorth reports:

    'The most striking thing about its site is probably the old trees which loom around the edges, and especially the great yew which towers over the well itself. Across England it is common to find extremely ancient yew trees at Christian sites, many of them possibly older than the churches built next to them, which may imply the Christianising of a previously pagan sanctuary. I don’t know how old this yew is, but given how slow growing they are, it must be a good century or two:

    The trees here have been affixed with little signs reminding visitors that nature is God’s creation. We were all born in a garden, after all'

    Well, why do you suppose people were so keen to put those helpful messages there? The one in the photo was fairly explicit, to my mind: 'Let the beauty of nature remind you of the goodness of god' - ie: don't get so carried away by these wonderful surroundings that you forget that you don't belong here, you belong up in heaven. That's what PK doesn't get - or is refusing to get since his conversion (there was plenty of commentary about the 'old gods' vs the new, imported ones in 'The Wake') - the pagans were still influenced by animism, focused on the here & now and the embedded spirits of place. Christianity is a globalised religion that belongs everywhere and nowhere at the same time, and it wants you to rise above and transcend the physical world entirely and ultimately leave it completely behind. What does that remind you of, Paul?

    Anyway, I'll admit it's a pretty good tune, as far as church music goes:





    cheers,
    I

    PS: some of the links from the rabbit hole fyi:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holy_well
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clootie_well
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Celtic_religion
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity_in_Ireland

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