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"Supreme" court religious lunatics overturn Roe V Wade

Posted by Raskolnikov <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 1:07 pm

according to a (very rare) leak from the SC they are about to overturn the right to abortions.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/live/2022/may/03/roe-v-wade-us-supreme-court-preliminary-vote-overturns-abortion-ruling-leaked-draft-livev-updates

Thanks Obama you ####ing fraud. He promised to codify it and then didn't while they had a filibuster-proof super majority and said it "wasn't the highest legislative priority". Then they lost their majority and now they are helping to shoo it out the door. Presumably it's still Jill Stein's fault or Bernie or socialism or something. The sooner that shit hole completely goes over to the theocratic gun-loving facist dystopia it so wants to be, the better.

...no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party...So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.

Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....nm

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 5:11 pm, in reply to ""Supreme" court religious lunatics overturn Roe V Wade"

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....nm

Posted by psingh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=psingh' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 5:25 pm, in reply to "Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....nm"

F**k off Keith you nutjob.

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 6:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....nm"

Choose life.

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Raskolnikov <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 6:49 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

Or let the person involved choose for themselves?

...no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party...So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 6:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

To commit murder?

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Tomski <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 7:25 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

Reactionary interpretation.

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 8:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

Sophistry

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Tomski <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 8:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it probably is a duck ...

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 7:16 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

And at that Keith quickly changed his mind on the "choose" part...

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 8:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

Irony passes you by.

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 9:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

"Irony passes you by."

- If I see any I'll wave.

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....nm

Posted by Jackie <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Jackie' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 8:56 pm, in reply to "Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....nm"

Definition of eugenic: relating to or fitted for the production of good offspring

I don’t understand your comment.

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....nm

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 9:17 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....nm"

"I don’t understand your comment."

-Keith claims abortion is about eugenics but of course most people know this to be untrue.
It's merely an example of the "sophistry" he enjoys accusing others of: i.e. "...when you use a fact in an argument to make your point even though you know the point is false".

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 4, 2022, 8:37 am, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....nm"

If you look at the "impairments" that can justify abortion in the British Abortion Act (amongst other reasons) they aren't that different to the Nazi Euthanasia Aktion. In 1967 women were given the responsibility for getting rid of lebensunwertes lebens under the guise of emancipation.

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 4, 2022, 1:40 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

We've discussed this before. The actual (and long-lived ) Eugenic legislation was Paragraph 219a of the Nazi penal code set up to preserve the vitality of the "Aryan" race: which was still blocking access to abortion in Germany until three years ago.

There is no "lebensunwertes lebens" or anything to do with "unworthiness" mentioned in In the British 1967 legislation, though it does make provision for abortion in the case of seriously handicap, what is actually make paramount is the welfare of the woman: both physical and mental.

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 4, 2022, 3:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

The nazis did their abortions after birth ("euthanasia"), as you well know and the list of "impairments" T4 used to excuse Gnadentod is what I referred to.

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 5, 2022, 3:20 am, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

"The nazis did their abortions after birth..."

-Descending into obvious oxymorons doesn't change the issue of you simply being wrong.

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 5, 2022, 11:35 am, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

What's the purpose of the Abortion Act?

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 5, 2022, 12:19 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

-I'm not interested in hypothesising motives.

My only interest is: "Does it make ordinary peoples lives more bearable?" The answer from all the women I have discussed this with is a considered "yes".

That's not something a virtue signaller with a "theory" is going to change.

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 5, 2022, 1:30 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

What about the murdered? Eichmann could use your utilitarian excuse.

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 5, 2022, 2:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

"What about the murdered?"

There are none. If your premise were the case as George Carlin pointed out, you would have to charge practically every woman who's ever menstruated with manslaughter.

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 5, 2022, 5:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

Don't be fatuous, it takes an egg and a sperm to make a human being.

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 5, 2022, 6:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

Don't be fatuous, it takes an egg and a sperm to make a human being.

-don't be dumb: the majority of fertilised eggs end up on sanitary towels.

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 5, 2022, 10:03 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

Spontaneously, not via Dr Mengele.

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 5, 2022, 11:11 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

"Spontaneously, not via Dr Mengele."

Decide a foetus has the status of "baby" and it doesn't matter. Even if it doesn't involve intent when a woman unintentionally kills her "baby" its still manslaughter.
A few glasses of alcohol whilst knowingly pregnant? now there's a probable murder charge.

In deciding to push law further into the womb you merely move the utilitarianism you apparently despise to whatever point it is that you want to start persecuting women on the above ludicrous charges or have them risk their lives on backstreet abortions.

Virtue signalling doesn't make good laws.

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 6, 2022, 3:16 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

Casuistry.

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 6, 2022, 3:47 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

The casuistry is all yours.

Grant foeti legal personhood and that's a legal consequence: there are no two ways about it.
As I said, choosing to conveniently ignore events you have made criminal would be resorting to the utilitarianism you claim to abhor.

Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?....

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 8, 2022, 10:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Eugenic murder to be outlawed?...."

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: "Supreme" court religious lunatics overturn Roe V Wade

Posted by psingh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=psingh' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 5:26 pm, in reply to ""Supreme" court religious lunatics overturn Roe V Wade"

Bunch of whackjobs deciding they will drag women in America back to the stone age.

That's fascist not anti-face

Posted by Raskolnikov <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 3, 2022, 5:44 pm, in reply to ""Supreme" court religious lunatics overturn Roe V Wade"

too late for that part of it and not far off all of it really.

...no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party...So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.

Greenwald,s take.

Posted by ceemac666 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=ceemac666' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 4, 2022, 6:56 am, in reply to ""Supreme" court religious lunatics overturn Roe V Wade"

Whilst I am wholeheartedly in favour of abortion rights I am impressed by the logic of Greenwalds view of the Supreme Courts function under the US constitution.Whether the legal right to abortion should be mandated to individual states as opposed to federal statute is another matter entirely.

http://greenwald.substack.com/p/the-irrational-misguided-discourse?

Re: Greenwald,s take.

Posted by johnlilburne <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=johnlilburne' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 4, 2022, 10:27 am, in reply to "Greenwald,s take."

Thanks for that. I've skim read it.

If abortion rights end up being determined democratically at state level, one can envisage a situation where women have to cross state lines to obtain an abortion.

A bit like the situation years back when Irish girls would come to Britain for an abortion.

Re: Greenwald's take.

Posted by Tomski <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 4, 2022, 10:36 am, in reply to "Greenwald,s take."

Whilst I am wholeheartedly in favour of abortion rights I am impressed by the logic of Greenwalds view of the Supreme Courts function under the US constitution.

Glad I had a look at this this morning .. very much agree with that statement.

As to: Whether the legal right to abortion should be mandated to individual states as opposed to federal statute is another matter entirely.

This latter note is tinkering with an unworkable system which ignores the natural justice that considers the real life consequences for the individual. Now what is the difficulty in codifying this natural justice into law? hehe

Re: Greenwald's take.

This latter note is tinkering with an unworkable system which ignores the natural justice that considers the real life consequences for the individual. Now what is the difficulty in codifying this natural justice into law? hehe

If the Supreme Court takes the view that abortion rights are a matter for the legislature then the options are individual state laws,(which as pointed out above are almost certain to lead to the same injustice we saw in Ireland)or federal statute which cringing US pols like Obama will baulk at for fear of losing votes.
So very democratic.

Re: Greenwald's take.

Posted by Tomski <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on May 5, 2022, 1:06 am, in reply to "Re: Greenwald's take."

It's a dead end whichever way you look at it. Democracy indeed.

Re: Greenwald,s take.

There are no less than thirty seven references to "Democracy" "Democratic" and "Undemocratic" in that piece.

-its mere legalism. There is no "Democracy" in the US, just as there is none here.

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