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One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery

Posted by sashimi <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=sashimi' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2023, 6:45 am

"Thousands of "ordinary" Britons profited from the slave trade – and, says David Olusoga, they weren't about to accept abolition without a fight..."
-- https://www.historyextra.com/period/georgian/britain-slavery-slave-trade-abolition-act-black-history-david-olusoga/

Re: One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery

Posted by psingh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=psingh' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2023, 6:59 am, in reply to "One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery"

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2015/01/05/linc-j05.html

Re: One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 26, 2023, 7:48 am, in reply to "Re: One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery"

Power and Plenty: Trade, War, and the World Economy in the Second Millennium (Princeton Economic History of the Western World) Ronald Findlay, Kevin O′rourke 2009.

They calculated slavery amounting to something like 3% of the economy and slave trading 30%. They are quite funny on Eric Williams dropping a flying toilet on British pre D-day propaganda about freedom. ;O)

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2023, 3:16 pm, in reply to "One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery"

"White "working class?" "Ordinary" Britons?

-Misleading stuff. Population about 10 million. 47,000 compensation claims. Some of these may have been fraudulent but that aside simple arithmetic shows that to be about a half a percent of the population.

-In addition the very fact of having enough wealth to own a slave made you by definition "NOT" an "Ordinary" Briton: certainly not "working class".

Re: One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery

Posted by Dovetail Joint <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Dovetail+Joint' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2023, 3:44 pm, in reply to "Re: One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery"

Much of this muddled thinking is dogmatic in character, with a poor understanding of the roots of slavery and where it fitted into the economy.

Worst of all the left/liberals seem to imagine that slavery was a 'moral' category, that is, people were slaves because they were black, rather than focusing on slavery as an 'economic' label.

African, of course, had slavery long before white Europeans became involved in the ghastly trade. Europeans wanted to buy slave labour and established forts and trading centres on the coast of Africa, but they rarely went inland. Who then suplied the European demand for slaves? That task fell to the Africans themselves and Arab traders. There was money to be made all round.

Today, the left, especially in the US, have a 'woke' and incredibly superficial slavery model, which taps into white middle-class guilt about imperilism and colonialism, and uses this to make political points about contemporary society.
'

This is some prize bullshit from you.

Posted by sashimi <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=sashimi' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2023, 4:16 pm, in reply to "Re: One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery"

Ukrainians are killing other Ukrainians, never mind NATO's role in this, since Ukrainians have been killing each other long before NATO existed.

Idiocy!

"It is no more or less than moral and intellectual dishonesty to attempt, as many European scholars

Posted by sashimi <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=sashimi' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2023, 4:56 pm, in reply to "Re: One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery"

and some African sympathizers have less than ably tried to do, to blame the
Atlantic African Slave Trade on Africans, when the financing, the maritime and
shipping arrangements, the insurance, the manning of the ships, the organization
and ownership of the plantations and slaves related directly to a coordinated
European led criminal enterprise, with profits directed back to Europe, without
pay to the Africans."
-- https://www.blackagendareport.com/content/reparations-case-settlement-0

European and Asian slavers were plying their business long before ..

Posted by Tomski <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2023, 5:46 pm, in reply to ""It is no more or less than moral and intellectual dishonesty to attempt, as many European scholars"

Africa was raided/colonised. For example, historically Ukraine and Russia were constantly raided by Vikings, Mongols and Ottoman Turks with 100K enslaved at a time in some cases. I'd say this was being carried out over almost half a millennium. Not to forget, Romans and Greeks being the other fine examples of this European enterprising spirit.

Not that I disagree that Europeans (mainly British and Portuguese) in Africa were not especially enterprising using modern financial instruments, and carrying it out on industrial scale, so to speak.

Some of the brutality of European slavers in Africa was especially shocking, Belgians probably being the worst:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Leopold%27s_Ghost

In America this lingered on after British abolished slavery in mid 19th cent. Just reading Kimberley's "Prejudential" about US founding fathers/slavers and so on.

Re: European and Asian slavers were plying their business long before ..

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2023, 5:59 pm, in reply to "European and Asian slavers were plying their business long before .."

"...and carrying it out on industrial scale, so to speak."

Yes: its the Industrialisation of slavery which is seen as the white European "innovation", but there again I suspect they might be hard pressed to match the Mongol empire on that.

Re: European and Asian slavers were plying their business long before ..

Posted by Tomski <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2023, 6:43 pm, in reply to "Re: European and Asian slavers were plying their business long before .."

they might be hard pressed to match the Mongol empire on that

I disagree somewhat. There is not much verifiable data to support that imo.

Mongols were excellent in fighting, invading and empire business. They took slaves in the beginning, especially the craftsmen and women etc and took them back to Mongolia. Later on not so much - having slaves crumped their style, because of distances, until they came up with taxing their subjects/minions instead.

Re: One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 26, 2023, 8:16 am, in reply to "Re: One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery"

The scramble for Africa in the 1880s is ascribed by some historians to the destabilising effects of European plundering of people from the western periphery driving people inland, crossing biological boundaries (into malarial areas for eg) and that the destabilisation of inland societies began to rebound in the C19th, leading to the Euros partitioning Africa to contain the disruption of Euro trading relationships.

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

OK, I stand corrected - middle and lower middle classes, not working class. (nm)

Posted by sashimi <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=sashimi' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2023, 4:05 pm, in reply to "Re: One for SueC about the white working class supporting slavery"

I'm not correcting you but the claims in the article.

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on January 25, 2023, 4:58 pm, in reply to "OK, I stand corrected - middle and lower middle classes, not working class. (nm)"

Upper middle perhaps but the less than half a percent of slave owners in the UK would be near exclusively in the upper classes on the wealth scale, as I said, due to the matter of slave ownership itself. Twenty slaves probably made you the equivalent to a millionaire today in slave property alone.

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