If only the 'left' of the party, during Corbyn's tenure, had used their position to fundamentally challenge the 'right'. Sadly, I don't believe they ever really wanted to do that. Now, it seems like the Corbyn period was, on balance, a bad thing for what passes as the 'left' and for democracy in the party as well. That's a shame. I wonder if they'll learn anything from the experience?
Re: Labour bans NEC members from meeting with Forde
'Sadly, I don't believe they ever really wanted to do that'
That's rubbish, of course 'the left' wanted to do that (ie win) as a whole - we're not a hive mind (you can criticise the leaders at that time, sure, but say that rather than characterising all left wing people). (note: this 'left' is not of a piece with leaders/most of the american Democratic Party as you seemed to suggest in a previous post (it's an old cliche that the democrats are to the right of the tory party here (well, maybe the tories of 8 years ago)
I don't think it was bad for the left of labour personally - was there even one before him? Most of the 'left of labour' I know weren't in the party since Blair and only rejoined because of the Corbyn surge - it reanimated us (like a zombie?), got us so animated the establishment pooped their pants and initiated the operation #### democracy/stop socialism media blitz. Losing was bad for us, but it's not like we lost in a fair fight of ideas (we'd win on policies every time, and in the us - only the pavlovian smear reactions and culture war baggage stop this imo) - and better to have loved socialism and lost than to have never loved socialism at all - the left should be used to these asymmetrical situations, we've been in them before and still went on to win victories in the end (weekend, 8 hour day etc etc) - first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, yada yada
Re: Labour bans NEC members from meeting with Forde
The 'left' was never in a position to challenge the 'right'. The staff and the majority of the PLP were resolutely against the Corbyn project. Thanks to the opposition of the unions and, in a futile attempt to keep the Party together, 'open selection', which might have changed the political orientation of MPs, was never adopted.
The 'failure' of the Corbyn project reveals for all to see the depths the 'establishment' is willing to sink to and the lengths it is willing to go to stop even a mild version of social democracy.
In truth, Corbyn did not pose much of a threat. But, his opposition to the Empire's wars was simply unacceptable.
You cannot simply insert a left wing leader at the top of a fundamentally establishment party and hope to succeed. The left at the grassroots was aspirational but not organisationally savvy.
You need to create the movement first. Then a Party can emerge out of that to carry the movement's aims forward. This happened with the emergence of the Labour Party out of the Trade Union movement. But, then it took two world wars and a depression for the Labour Party to achieve anything half decent.
To create a movement you need clearly defined aims. Like Brexit. Like Scottish independence (though that seems to be disappearing into the sands).
I can't see such a movement - with clear aims - coming from the left at the moment. The 'left' is too divided, too much of it wrapped up in identity politics, too much of it factional.
If some kind of movement does emerge it is more likely to come from the right, especially if economic conditions continue to deteriorate. There are convenient scapegoats in our midst.
Re: Labour bans NEC members from meeting with Forde
Maybe I should add that a truly left wing party could only emerge in this country under a system of PR.
The Tories obviously would not introduce such a system.
Nor would Labour under Starmer, despite Conference endorsing PR.
Starmer hasn't spent his time purging the left in the Party and making it establishment-friendly just in order to allow the possibility of a left alternative to emerge to replace his Party.
Re: Labour bans NEC members from meeting with Forde
got us so animated the establishment pooped their pants and initiated the operation #### democracy/stop socialism media blitz.
Unfortunately, Corbyn never grasped two important things. One: the extent (and depths) to which the establishment would go to stop him. Two: the power he had (in his own hands with the backing of thousands of new Labour members, including me) to change the Labour party, which he could have done despite the betrayal of people like Tom Watson and Iain McNichol. But because he didn't fully comprehend Point One, he didn't put into practice Point Two. Maybe he never even thought of doing it.It will cost the UK taxpayer £132bn to decommission all the UK’s civil nuclear sites and the work will not be completed for another 120 years, according to latest estimates. Report -- May 2022:
Anyone still in that Partei deserves all he/she/+/-/quaternary gets
Let's stop staring at Boxer the dead horse and do something constructive.Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
on March 20, 2023, 2:22 pm