Casualty Figures (long), Dead Elephant in the Room?
Posted by Gerard on August 13, 2023, 11:24 am
Rhetorically speaking why is it that we don't routinely (if not daily), receive casualty figures from our msm re: the Ukrainian conflict? Why don't we receive them from the Russians? Yes I know the excuse is that such represents sensitive data, however, figures for casualties in Vietnam were available (even if the number of actual "enemy" -combatant-, casualties was both exaggerated and routinely and grotesquely swelled by civilian deaths). How did this pan out re: Afghanistan? Can anyone give an historical perspective on such censorship?
Re: Casualty Figures (long), Dead Elephant in the Room?
The U.S. used to make a big deal of the flag-draped coffins and tearful hero widows but sometime during the Iraq/Afghanistan wars they decided that this stuff couldn't be shown any more and stopped people from taking photgraphs of the planes laden with coffins coming home.
This combined with the "We don't count bodies" attitude from the start of those wars probably dates the start of the heavy censorship of those figures (even though the "don't count bodies" thing was directed at the locals they were killing left, right and centre).
No idea about the Russians but then they haven't been involved in anywhere near the number of conflicts that the U.S. has. They were cagey about them during the Afghanistan war and also the two Chechen wars (particularly the first one where they underplayed their pretty large casualty numbers).
Ukraine seems to have been a black hole for facts since it started.
This is from "War Made Invisible" by Norman Solomon:
For officeholders in Washington and laptop warriors in the press corps, over time, enthusiasm for ongoing U.S. wars generally seems inversely proportional to the number of American casualties. Flag-draped coffins arriving on conveyor belts at military bases in the United States have been bad optics. “On the eve of the Iraq invasion” in early 2003, the Washington Post reported, the Pentagon ordered bases to adopt a policy of “making the arrival ceremonies off limits.” Tightening enforcement of restrictions that had been issued a dozen years earlier, at the time of the Gulf War, the George W. Bush administration “ended the public dissemination of such images by banning news coverage and photography of dead soldiers’ homecomings on all military bases.”7 The ban stayed in effect until 2009, when it was removed by the incoming Obama administration.8...no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party...So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.
Re: Casualty Figures (long), Dead Elephant in the Room?
Thanks for the reminder and the historical perspective that entails.
In this particular Ukr Rus war/SMO the casualty figures have been endlessly debated in alt media. The usual suspects like Col Macgregor, The Duran and many others. This, using the combination of RF released statements and evidence presented elsewhere.
RF seems to have relatively accurate data on Ukr casualties since they rely on listening to mil comms traffic after each battle.
Even the BBC was getting closer to admitting the horrendous Ukr KIA score via their (Lithuanian? based news outlet which counts via Ukr obituaries). Although this must be an undercount since lots of Ukr KIA are left on the battlefield, partly due to corruption of Ukr officers, and secondly from the motive that bereaved families will not be paid by the state.
As to RF reported casualties, these are evidently relatively low. People, like Simplicius, point out that RF social media is still alive and well and if the RF KIA etc. count was higher than officially reported, this would be easily exposed.
Correction: Casualty Figures (long), Dead Elephant in the Room?
... Ukr KIA score via their (Lithuanian? based news outlet which counts via Ukr obituaries)
Got that wrong. Originally I was thinking of Medusa, which is in Latvia. I don't know where MediaZona is based (that BBC relies on) ... and, it is counting RF and not Ukr casualties, which they reckon is now 30,000 since the start of the SMO. Elsewhere, it is said 47,000. With plausible 1:7 ratio, using latter figure, Ukr KIA are about 325,000. This implies about 1 million Ukr casualties, KIA and wounded and taken out of the military. I wouldn't be surprised if it not more than that. Horrendous war crime by war mongers like Boris Johnson and the rest of the NATOstan officials as well as the neoNazis in Kiev since this conflict could have been stopped during peace talks in Istanbul.
Correction 2: Casualty Figures (long), Dead Elephant in the Room?
It's not exactly the topic (Ukraine figures) but does provide some context as to the general methods....no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party...So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.
on August 13, 2023, 11:24 am