Tempted to agree, though we should remember that those described as on the left in the current political climate are anything but. Apropos, a memorable quote from Greenwald:
1:09:00 'Much more important as a political metric [than left/right, liberal/conservative] is whether you trust and respect and place credibility in the leading institutions of authority'
I think that's why all the 'left' liberal careerists hate Brand - because they're all statists who put their faith exclusively in government institutions to deliver the changes they think we need, whether on health care, covid, climate change, social justice etc etc. They can't accept that some people might reject those institutions wholesale and look to other ways to effect change. That's why there was such outrage when Brand suggested there might not be any point voting in UK elections given the lack of acceptable options - the liberals couldn't abide criticism of the entire system as irredeemably corrupt, so they had to shoot the messenger and double down on the importance of voting and reformist engagement in the political system, ignoring how its utter failure to deliver any of its promises. The same people stood behind authoritarian govt policies during covid, and steadfastly cling to the belief that solutions to climate change will be found through international agreements... between governments completely dominated by corporate interests, as they always have been.
Posted by Dovetail Joint on September 19, 2023, 8:21 pm, in reply to "Re: Greenwald on Brand"
I think the 'left' are committing political and electoral suicide, virtually across the entire western world.
I've just been on short trip to Germany. It's in crisis economically. AFD, a national conservative movement with roots in fascism and the extreme right, polling really strongly in several states; with up to 30% of the vote for them alone. Coupled to the SD/Green governments promise to re-arm Germany on scale not seen since Hitler's regime came to power, is worrying.
The 'left' seem to have forgotten how to talk to and engage ordinary people, leaving a huge hole and opportunity for the national right, like AFD.
Re: Greenwald on Brand
Posted by Dovetail Joint on September 19, 2023, 9:14 pm, in reply to "Re: Greenwald on Brand"
The stuff about the demise of the left, ideologically and electorally, is probably not that relevant to what's happening to Russell Brand right now.
I've now watched the Dispatches film, and I find it one of the most disgracefully manipulative programme of its type... ever. It reminds me of that dreadful Panorama episode about antisemetism in the Labour Party. It really is that bad.
Far from being 'stellar' journalism, it's a disgrace and massively unbalanced. It's a piece of tv theatre designed to appeal to the viewers emotions, bypassing their critical faculities. It repeatedly and deliberately conflates 'questionable sexual behavior' that's perfectly legal, with sex crimes like rape, that obviously are a crime. This is grossly unfair to Brand and insinuates that if he's 'guilty' of one kind of 'bad' behavior, but not illegal behavior, then, he's probably guilty of the other behavior, rape, which is a crime!
This is unconscionable and a form of character assassination which soften the viewers up, grooms them to accept rape allegations as true, by association, guilt by association.
They use the techniques on the horror movie, the sinsiter music, the dark lighting, the shadows, the mysterious silhouettes, the editing, all to manipulate the viewers into accepting the veracity of the allegations. Increasingly this is how the media works.
The people who made the film obviously have an agenda. Not so much to protect women, but to bring down what they think Brand represents, a form of masculinity that they find repugnant and toxic.
Re: Greenwald on Brand
Posted by Ken Waldron on September 19, 2023, 9:53 pm, in reply to "Re: Greenwald on Brand"
As below, its the "Moorov doctrine"...if you want to prove a crime took place but can't then a deep dig into someone's personal history can bring forth a litany of non-criminal supposed misdemeanors: you can then glue these together as "related" and present a "pattern" as "cumulative evidence" for a conviction.
I think it's relevant because the parlous state of the 'left' is due precisely to toxic witchunts, disciplinary actions and banishments of the kind we're seeing with Brand now, Corbyn & his supporters in the labour party, new labour corporatism and more generally the move away from a left rooted in workplace struggle to one transiently connected to alienated ideological battles from people politicised at universities, then moving on to the professional sectors. It seems to have happened across the western world, so not surprising to hear your experiences in Germany. It's what you get from shipping manufacturing overseas and moving to an indebted service economy of highly educated people who can't replace a lightbulb... of course their politics aren't going to be grounded in reality.
Posted by Dovetail Joint on September 20, 2023, 7:03 am, in reply to "Re: Greenwald on Brand"
What I find particularly depressing about his latest media frenzy relating to the allegations about Russell Brand, is that, looking at the coverage, it appears that much of the support for due process and not jumping to conclusions about these events, is coming from the conservative end of the spectrum, compared to the 'left/liberals'.
as with free speech, opposition to war, anti-globalism (what used to be called anti-globalisation, though there are some differences of emphasis), criticism of corporate capture of govt in the case of big pharma during covid... all right wing issues now. At least they are the ones now talking about it, and the liberal, careerist 'left' have abandoned those principles and even started associating them with the right themselves. Pretty crazy and deeply depressing as you say, not least because the right are going to bring their own biases to these issues and the results aren't going to be pretty...Tell your story; Ask a question; Interpret generously http://storybythethroat.wordpress.com/tell-ask-listen/
Re: Yup...
Posted by Dovetail Joint on September 20, 2023, 11:50 am, in reply to "Yup..."
I think many conservatives are more cynical, or realistic? about what's oftern referred to as... human nature than people on the left/liberal end of the political spectrum.
on September 19, 2023, 6:59 pm