It’s exciting times for the unthinking Left. Across the country (indeed, across the West), university campuses are erupting with the same kind of protest. Nominally, Israel/Palestine is the narrative of these protests. But I am warning here that American students are actually the targets.
Tent cities have been hurriedly constructed on college quadrangles (this was a methodology in the 1980s as well, when we protested investment in then-apartheid South Africa via campus “shantytowns”, as they were called then). Students are driven by a range of motivations — ranging from sincere idealism, as many from all backgrounds watch the bombardment and starvation of Gaza with horror; boredom — a generation which has grown up on its phone, finally has a battle, replete with heroes and villains, risk and tactics, exciting enough ‘IRL’ to compete with Mortal Kombat; and ignorance, as naive students who have no knowledge of the complexities of the agony of Israel/Palestine’s conflict, credulously mouth reductive, inflammatory slogans, including “We are Hamas”, “Intifada Now” and “From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be Free.” Students more knowledgeable and compassionate could as easily call for a ceasefire; for peace talks; and for all sides to obey the international rules of war.
These protests are not solely organic. It is important at a time such as this to remember something that I have tried to warn the world since 2007, during the “Global War on Terror.” An event can be both real and orchestrated or hyped. A threat can be both real and exaggerated. People involved in an “action” or protest can be authentically moved by an issue, and also be pawns in the strategy of cynical infiltrators or agitators, working with guidance from much higher up, who are themselves directing activity on a very big chessboard. We, the US, at School for the Americas, train our own agitators to go undercover and influence and infiltrate University students overseas, to support our invisible, unstated foreign policy goals. Those who act without knowing that other forces are harnessing their efforts, are called, by the “intelligence community”, “unwitting assets.”
The New York Post has confirmed that many of the protest organizers are being paid by George Soros’ Open Society Institute. US Campaign for Palestinian Rights pays organizers and “fellows” fees ranging from nearly three thousand to over seven thousand dollars , in exchange for eight hours a week of activism to boost “revolution” in support of Palestine. The Rockefeller Brothers are also a source of funding for these campus agitators. Students are deep in debt to attend such colleges, and even TAs and graduate students often live on income that is below the poverty line. I would point out that Soros and the Rockefeller family could help Palestine and Israel reach a peaceful solution in many other more constructive ways than fomenting campus violence and instability. There is even a “fun” app — BoyCat.io — which allows externally funded pro-Palestinian groups to share with students prepared checklists of what they “need” on campus for the most disruptive protests, with set lists ranging from zip ties to strobe lights to Epi-pens and wooden shields.
So clearly the campuses are pawns in a larger agenda, and the helpless civilians in Gaza caught in tragic world events — along with the targeted civilians in Israel — are simply collateral damage in a larger power play unrelated to their actual wellbeing.
The war waged on US college campuses today is ultimately not about Palestine or Israel at all. It is a war against America — and especially against America’s next generation.
What does it tell US students when a California campus simply closes —- before the end of the semester and before graduation — due to “protest”? Cal Poly Humboldt, a smaller campus on which working-class and middle-class students depend for an affordable education, simply shut down “due to protests over Gaza.” UCLA simply closed down classes today. The San Francisco Chronicle asks, “How will Stanford and Berkeley React?” That is the question of a paid propaganda platform, rolling out a nationwide campaign, just as “COVID” and “the Lockdowns” were strategically rolled out.
What are California students, from the most economically stressed to the most privileged, learning? That there is no social contract left for them in America.
No matter how hard you worked to get into UCLA or Cal Poly Humboldt, your education can go up in flames overnight. No matter that your parents worked two jobs to send in a $30,000 check for a single semester — that semester can be quenched with “unrest.” Just as US students are recovering from the trauma of an unseen pathogen sending them home for a year and a half in 2020-2021, they are learning that that chaos is not in the rear view mirror but that it is always waiting in the wings, to shred their plans, their friendships, their learning tracks and their very futures.
Snipers were allegedly spotted on the roofs of Ohio State and Indiana Universities. A scary image that looked like gunmen on the roof, circulated on social media. Were these snipers? Or National Guardsmen with tripods? The universities would not clarify. What the students at these schools and students across America are being taught is that their peaceful, civilized campuses, that represent some of the most sacred institutions in an advanced civil society, can overnight turn into places of opaque threats and ill-explained terrors.
Then there is Columbia University. One hundred NYPD stormed the campus after days of a disruptive standoff, during which, in a scene reminiscent of the Marxist takeover of the campus in 1968, protesters violently entered a building, Hamilton Hall, and locked the students in with bike locks. Three hundred students were arrested, from both Columbia and from a similar crackdown at CCNY. At several universities, Jewish students and even faculty members were instructed to stay indoors, or were accosted and barred from entering classes and common spaces. Other students were warned to “shelter in place.”
Outside agitators are present on US campuses, creating this orchestrated chaos and division. The wife of a convicted terrorist, Sami al-Arian, was confirmed to be on the Columbia campus prior to the NYPD raid. Mayor Adams also warned that ““outside agitators” were on New York City campuses. I’d note that given the Soros and Rockefeller funds flowing to students themselves, specifically to fund agitation of this kind, the “outside” agitators include those who were actually on-site already, but it could well be that they were joined by other activists external to the community of the universities. Masks and even keffiyahs were often worn so as to hide activists’ identities; and, as I noted elsewhere, most 19 year olds in the US can’t organize a bathroom cleaning or a grocery run on their own initiative; it is unlikely in my view that mass upheaval on multiple campuses at once, could be managed by these young adults alone, without some outside, more senior leadership and direction.
What is my point in identifying how inorganic these protests are and how artificial is this chaos?
Because, as with the weird, CCP-style culture that descended on us in 2020, I want you to see that the target of these protests is actually our culture.
It is not American, to bar entrance to an institution by race or religion. It is not part of American culture, to fear for one’s life while trying to get an education on an American college campus. Taking down the US flag, and replacing it with the flag of another nation or people (the Palestinian flag in this case) is an attack on American culture and on American unity, just as the sickening scene in the US Congress, in which our representatives waved the Ukrainian flag en masse, is an attack on US culture. The US flag was taken down at City College, New York, and replaced with a Palestinian flag. The Palestinian flag was raised over a statue of John Harvard at Harvard University, Cambridge, MA. At Chapel Hill, North Carolina, protesters took down the US flag and replaced with with the Palestinian flag.
Again, these are 17-21 year olds. Where are the Palestinian flags, coming from? How do these attacks on the US flag, happen all at once on different campuses? From where are the tactics deriving? How are they being disseminated?
This is an attack on America, and on its most precious institutions, and on the consciousness of its next generation. An organic American protest might have debates. An organic US protest might call for peace. An organic US protest would peter out when Finals loom.
This mass set of actions is to scar and divide the next generation.
There is more here, though, than outsiders’, globalists’ attack on America via its universities and its youth.
There is a serious physical or national security threat, that also looms.
I see such a serious physical threat to students and to the rest of us, being set up, potentially, by the chaos that has been instigated on US campuses.
I have been trying to warn the nation that the fact that millions of immigrants are being bused and flown to strategic locations around the US — including to sensitive sites such as O’Hare airport — and housed in barracks-like group housing — is a situation that can be a setup for a single command that results in a sudden eruption of mayhem across the nation.
The risk of this is certainly heightened by the fact that Brian’s cohost, former Border Agent JJ Carrell, warns that hundreds of “Special Interest Aliens” — meaning, immigrants who are either terrorists themselves, or who are linked to terrorists — have been allowed to enter the country and been transferred to various internal locations, even though in the past, they would have been immediately interrogated, turned over the the FBI, and deported.
By the same token, if you have chaos on American campuses, and students being locked into buildings, as at Hamilton Hall; if you have outside agitators and heightened emotions, and the disruption of the threat of police raids; if you have terrorists or terrorist-aligned infiltrators, and covered or masked faces — you have the national security setup for an Oct 7 type event, in America.
It took just 50 terrorists to infiltrate the Tribe of Nova music festival, an Israeli music festival attended by young adults about the same age, or a bit older than, the young adults on America’s college campuses. In one day, they terrorized the event, killed 260, and took hostages. This hostage-taking brought Israel into a bloody war that has destroyed its prestige internationally; brought about the deaths of thousands upon thousands of Gazans (more than 34,000, according to AP) and more than 1200 Israelis; and that has not ended yet.
Now imagine just 100 terrorists in the US. At a signal, they can take hostages among the naive young adults who are in the campus encampments. At a signal, ten campuses can turn into a hostage situation.
But who would be these hostages? The children of American’s elite, middle- and working-class families.
This situation could be a catastrophe for the families, of course; but it could also create a powerful leverage point to bring the US to its knees.
There would be images of American kids held at gunpoint. Images of American girls who had been raped. Images of bodies, perhaps, of American kids, in college quads.
These would be more than devastating for our nation. These images would destroy our prestige worldwide. The Great Satan would be castrated, helpless.
Remember the “fun”, attractively-designed app BoyCat.io. It can in principle give potential terrorists a live map of where the protesting students are, who they are, what the layout of various campuses may be, and it even can map what the protesters’ friend networks are. It is a living map to a seamless takeover of multiple campuses at once. Who launched the app? To whom are US students giving all of this sensitive data about themselves? who is harvesting the data? The use of this app too is a massive national security vulnerability, involving our young adults.
Remember what just a few US hostages held by Iran in 1979, did to the Carter-Reagan election?
A hostage situation on multiple US campuses at once could also be used provoke America to bloodshed overseas — damaging its own standing and reputation just as Israel has damaged its own status worldwide.
Finally a hostage situation on multiple campuses at once, could create such a terrifying distraction, and draw so many police, FBI investigators and National Guardsmen to those college campuses, that the whole internal security of the nation could be jeopardized.
Military scholars know that terrorists often create a distraction — one bomb goes off — and then when rescuers arrive, there will be a second, larger, explosion.
This attack on our nation’s campuses could be followed by a second internal strike, against other targets — strategic targets such as airports, food processing plants and energy grid operations — by terrorists who are now embedded in these many barracks-type housing locations that have been distributed throughout our nation.
And that — would be a difficult war to fight. Even for a superpower.
And that — would “tenderize” us, to use a military term that Brian has taught me, for an aerial bombardment, or for a land invasion. Say, via Marxist Canada, now wholly owned by the CCP.
I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong.
Sadly my warnings have proven about 95 per cent correct, since 2007 when I wrote The End of America, and more recently, since 2020, when I realized that the war is now upon us.
But for the sake of our kids, and our nation, please heed my warnings and act — so that my warnings cannot come true.
Re: Naomi Wolf: US Campus Chaos: A New Oct 7 on the Way?
Wow, ok I'm only on a very brief skim and I think I am going to have to come back to it but holy shit this looks terrible:
Outside agitators (but not the apartheid state thugs) it's George Soros and his top boys and various Araby types. Look out.
So clearly the campuses are pawns in a larger agenda, and the helpless civilians in Gaza caught in tragic world events — along with the targeted civilians in Israel — are simply collateral damage in a larger power play unrelated to their actual wellbeing
Wow. Talk about double standards.
Snipers were allegedly spotted on the roofs of Ohio State and Indiana Universities. A scary image that looked like gunmen on the roof, circulated on social media. Were these snipers? Or National Guardsmen with tripods? The universities would not clarify.
No Naomi, they were snipers, clear as fucking day. They've been pictured entering the buildings with their rifles and other gear. They've been pictured in situ.
Now imagine just 100 terrorists in the US. At a signal, they can take hostages among the naive young adults who are in the campus encampments. At a signal, ten campuses can turn into a hostage situation. .
I could be wrong. I hope I am wrong.
You could be fucking insane. I hope I'm wrong but I doubt it.
I know you didn't post it because you supported the argument so no shade being cast in your direction, but honsetly this is demented. ...no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party...So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.
Outside agitators are present on US campuses, creating this orchestrated chaos and division. The wife of a convicted terrorist, Sami al-Arian, was confirmed to be on the Columbia campus prior to the NYPD raid. Mayor Adams also warned that ““outside agitators” were on New York City campuses. I’d note that given the Soros and Rockefeller funds flowing to students themselves, specifically to fund agitation of this kind, the “outside” agitators include those who were actually on-site already, but it could well be that they were joined by other activists external to the community of the universities. Masks and even keffiyahs were often worn so as to hide activists’ identities; and, as I noted elsewhere, most 19 year olds in the US can’t organize a bathroom cleaning or a grocery run on their own initiative; it is unlikely in my view that mass upheaval on multiple campuses at once, could be managed by these young adults alone, without some outside, more senior leadership and direction.
The wife of convicted terrorist thing is just flat out false. It has been completely refuted. She's repeating a lie.
Eric Adams (what an authority!) "warned outside agitators" were on campuses. No evidence.No proof. Just the head of the organisation that will go in there and crack heads airily waving his hand at a classic bogey man for pig action.
"Most 19 years olds...". These are not "most 19 year olds" given they are attending prestigious Universities. Also, plenty of 19 years old managed to organise stuff like, er Facebook? You might have heard of it, Naomi. But nope. It's gotta to be some big bad bogeyman coming to kidnap our kids and wage war on America.
All the while, not one mention of the actual outside agitators, the pro-Israel thugs, who appeared and started all the violence.
She also doesn't mention the reason people are masking up is because the various groups like Canary Project are doxing protestors who don't wear masks to try and apply pressure and destroy their career prospects, all in the servive of the apartheid state but Naomi doesn't care about that.
God damn this article is a mess....no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party...So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.
The Wolf in sheep's clothing delivering some awful, full blown quizling bollox there! (nm)
Posted by Jackie on May 2, 2024, 10:01 pm, in reply to "I had to come back"
Thanks for this. I don’t think Soros, Rockefeller, or anyone else could get students who are paying $30,000- $40,000 a year to take a chance on being turfed from school and residence, and jeopardize future job prospects. I’m really impressed at what these demonstrators are risking in order to protest the departed violence and depravation being perpetrated on the Palestinian people.
I first read this on MoA where some dick posted it and at the time I confused her with Naomi Klein . However, once I started reading it I was bewildered with her flag-shagging comments, hence my initial caveat that I haven't analysed it. I had to go out ..
Anyway, ta Rask for excellent take down.
I should have read MoA comments after that was posted
Wow, she's completely out to lunch on this. A severe case of pre-traumatic stress (thanks to whoever coined this term - someone on here?) about improbable events that might happen in her fevered imagination of the future. She speculated about the Hamas attack getting replicated across the southern US border by 'special interest aliens' immediately after Oct 7th: 'I told Brian, my husband, that I felt that the attack across Israel’s southern border was also a trial run for an attack across our own Southern border. He said, only half-joking, “I wish you had not said that, because everything you say comes true.” He also acknowledged that mine was a reasonable fear.
JJ Carrell, DailyClout’s newest commentator, who has spent a career as a border agent, wrote a chilling essay and appeared in a video for us about “SIAs” crossing our border — about “Special Interest Aliens.” Carrell said more than 80 have entered our country in Fiscal Year 2023 — in contrast, previously, he has only encountered five in his entire career. Other news sites are covering this fact now too.
These 80 plus SIAs are somewhere in America, waved through.
SIA’s are illegal immigrants who are terrorists, or who are aligned with terrorists. Carrell explained that under normal conditions, when an “SIA” is apprehended, everything stops. Law enforcement is notified up to the level of the FBI. The SIA is taken into custody or deported and everyone knows where he is.
So nothing really prevents an orchestrated uprising of what might be embedded terrorists in our midst, from taking place. Indeed, JJ Carrell expects it.' - https://naomiwolf.substack.com/p/please-calm-down
Though the idea of a coordinated takedown of the entire country by immigrant terrorist cells is a pretty dramatic development of the idea - ie: a subject for fiction not reality.
Also, quite astonishing she can make allegations about penniless Palestinians somehow astroturfing these protests (albeit via Soros and Rockefeller, really? New York Post says so, must be true...) but has nothing to say about the millions Israel pours into lobbying, propaganda, election interference and likely agent provocateur actions left right & centre. But yeah, the real threat to American Freedom (TM) comes from student protestors and the Shady Actors supposedly pulling their string behind the scenes. Bullsh!t.
Finally, the protestors aren't responsible for how university hierarchies and the cops respond to their - overwhelmingly peaceful - protests and encampments. That's like saying antivaxxers were the cause of authoritarian govt policies of mandates, passports and lockdowns, not an argument she would take seriously for a heartbeat.
The main thrust of this article - that the campus protests harbinger some sort of October 7th copycat attack on the US - seem very bizarre aka bonkers. Nevertheless, some of the claims she makes seem plausible, at least to me, and I think warrant investigation. Are protestors being funded and, if so, by who? Is Soros and/or a network of NGOs and think-tanks funded by him involved in these protests? Because, if so, his involvement is unlikely to be due to the plight of Gazans. Are outside agitators involved - who are they? The US's alphabet soup of agencies must have some presence - do they all have the same agenda? What about others?
The original posting on the 'Moon of Alabama' site feature comments by a poster with the tag of 'scorpion'. He/she tells the story of a young woman they know who was at one of California's colleges when George Floyd was killed. She originally took part in the Black Lives Matter protests but told her mother that at some point it was clear that non-students had moved in and taken over the protests and were very intimidating. The culmination of this movement was rioting and arson that left parts of towns and cities in ruins. Who was behind all of this - who benefits from the destruction of homes and businesses? Maybe the same game is being played here.
Re: While her conclusions seem bonkers some of her claims need investigating
While "they" will always be taking an interest in anything that is getting media attention and be looking at ways they can turn it to their advantage, the only outside agitation has been on the pro-Israeli side with the clear intention to allow the media to describe the protests as violent and thus the pigs have a justification to crush them.
Ditto, the BLM protests were infiltrated by agent provocateurs to kick up the violence and damage the movement. A lot of evidence shows they were law enforcement/Feds but maybe some NGO dosh got thrown in too.
The idea that shady NGOs are going to get behind pro-Palestine/pro-ceasefire protests in any any seems to be on its face unrealistic.
The same goes for the Feds and the spooks; the only thing they are all going to be doing is spotting organisers to compile info/dox/turn them into snitches or to stir up violence to precipitate a crack down.
The rest, and the vast majority, of her article is utter boot-licking garbage....no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party...So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.
Re: While her conclusions seem bonkers some of her claims need investigating
Ok, I had a look at the NY Post article and it seems like the standard tabloid hatchet job on leftist protest groups they don't like, claiming insincerity, dubious source of funds, and (as happened with Occupy and the outrage of them going into Starbucks) making a big deal out of what they spend their money on - or maybe even get given to them for free by hidden billionaires??
This Wapo article puts the claims about Soros/Rockefeller funding in context, basically very indirect and a very small proportion of their over all budget:
[...] the connection between the protests and funding from Soros’s Open Society Foundations (OSF) is so tenuous as to be obviously contrived.
One might begin by asking what Soros is theoretically paying for. After all, this is just kids setting up tents on a college campus. Is the allegation that Soros is planting students at Columbia University (for example) and fronting the $68,000 tuition?
No. The New York Post article suggests other ways this largesse is apparently manifested.
“The cash from Soros and his acolytes has been critical to the Columbia protests that set off the national copycat demonstrations,” it reads, later describing the scene at Columbia: “Students sleep in tents apparently ordered from Amazon and enjoy delivery pizza, coffee from Dunkin’, free sandwiches worth $12.50 from Pret a Manger, organic tortilla chips and $10 rotisserie chickens.”
The “tents from Amazon” bit is a nod to a theory floating around on right-wing social media that someone is buying all of these tents for students, as though it would be otherwise impossible for a student to buy a $20 tent on her own. Mind you, there’s no evidence that the other stuff mentioned was bought by some billionaire donor, but the New York Post has been having fun recently referring to the food as “luxurious” as it wonders “[w]ho or what organization is behind the food delivery.” Clearly no average individual could have bought Dunkin’ doughnuts.
But back to that “cash from Soros and his acolytes.” At no point does the Post article demonstrate how this purported cash has been critical, instead simply listing organizations that have been involved in the protests to some extent and tracing their funding back to OSF.
Take the group U.S. Campaign for Palestinian Rights. It, the New York Post alleges, has a fellowship program that includes three people who have been at rallies on college campuses. In an illustration, the three are identified as “paid protesters” — suggesting that their motivation for participation is the money and not the views that led them to seek the fellowship in the first place.
“George Soros and his hard-left acolytes are paying agitators who are fueling the explosion of radical anti-Israel protests at colleges across the country,” the story hyperventilates. Eventually, it describes how.
U.S. Campaign for Palestinian Rights is registered with the IRS as Education for Just Peace in the Middle East (EJP). And EJP has received grants from OSF.
The largest was $300,000, given in 2018. During that fiscal year, EJP took in just over $1 million in revenue. It spent about $1.3 million, meaning it operated at a loss. In fiscal 2019, it had net assets of about $165,000 — meaning that a big chunk of that OSF grant was already spent.
EJP also received a grant from OSF for $150,000 in 2021 and a two-year grant for $250,000 in 2022. The New York Post’s suggestion (echoing one published earlier in the week by the Wall Street Journal) is that this money went to those “paid protesters.” But money is fungible. During those years, the organization also spent $2.4 million, at least $2 million of which wasn’t OSF money.
If the campus fellows identified by the New York Post are being paid the same as those who can currently apply for those positions, the total one-time cost to the U.S. Campaign for Palestinian Rights was about $10,000. Nor are the fellows identified in the article still fellows. A spokesperson for the organization confirmed in an email to The Washington Post that the individuals featured in the New York Post article were from last year’s class. In other words, they are no longer “paid” at all.
The New York Post story also accuses Students for Justice in Palestine of being “Soros-funded” and fundamentally involved in the protests. (That the protests metastasized nationally only after police raided the Columbia encampment undercuts the idea that this is driven from the top down, but so be it.) So where does the Soros money come from?
Well, the story alleges, Students for Justice in Palestine is funded by the Westchester People’s Action Coalition Foundation, or WESPAC. And WESPAC received $132,000 from the Tides Foundation at some point. And the Tides Foundation has received millions in funding from OSF over the years.
It’s true that the Tides Foundation has received more than $11 million in OSF grants since 2017. It is also true that the Tides Foundation reported $298 million in revenue … in fiscal 2017 alone. The reported grants from OSF total less that 0.3 percent of Tides’ revenue from 2017 to 2022.
Regardless, Students for Justice in Palestine denies that it receives any money from WESPAC, nor is there any public indication that it does. In a statement to The Washington Post, a representative for the group indicated that the foundation “neither funds nor influences our organization’s political activity but instead extends its legal tax-exempt status to us in order to support our mission.”
“We refuse to engage with baseless claims regarding our funding in the middle of a genocide funded, militarily supported, and politically backed by the United States,” the statement concluded.
*****
Admittedly it is of interest where groups like this get their funding from, and worth investigating their likely motives for doing so. Also an odd, potentially suspect situation when people are paid thousands of dollars for their activism. But people making that the main focus of response as Wolf does IMO shows that they're looking for how to dismiss the significance or basic validity of the protests and are only interested in distracting people away from the cause they're addressing.
Another sign the protestors are on the right track is the apparently universally negative response they are getting from the media and political class in the US, manifested by the brutality of militarised police being called in to crack their heads in time-honoured fashion. Rubber bullets too by the looks of things (0:20):
Good analysis. While there's always a bit of digging that needs to be done to see who's throwing money to whom, the NW article seems like just another thread of the entire broom of the mainstream media that has tried to sweep all of this into the "anti-semitic/pro-Hamas" bin.
A truly shameful, and also pretty worrying, moment in recent history. Worrying because it's clear that they are full of shit and it's also clear they don't care that people can see that. ...no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party...So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.
I recall a previous ocasion when a group of anarchists were accused of being funded by George Soros. Their response was to carry banners saying "Where's our money, George?" and "We never got our money for last week, George. What's going on?".
Hopefully, the students and their supporters will behave similarly and dismiss this nonsense.
I can't believe this foolishness has even been posted on the LBN. It should be given short shrift. As indeed the ridiculous follow-up nonsense suggesting Wolfe's claims need to be investigated.
"We refuse to engage with baseless claims regarding our funding in the middle of a genocide". Yep!
It's only a couple of weeks since you were encouraging people on here not to attend a pro-Palestinian demonstration.
And here you go again, encouraging people not to trust Palestinians and their supporters on campus based on some mindless, scurrilous, attention-seeking nonsense from Wolfe.
I also note how quickly you jumped on the Hamas rape allegations bandwagon.
It's only a matter of time before the traditional "crowds whipped up by outside agitators" is joined by "overzealous junior officers"; it's like the 70s never went away.The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
As ever, people showing solidarity are to be dismissed as "outsiders".
Could you please confirm that now you have been convinced that all the rape cr*p has now been debunked and that in essence we are recognising that all these stories were basically hasbara? Can we agree on that?
Do you not also agree that you were somewhat over-cautious on joining in with Gaza genocide condemnations because .. you do .. not to trust Palestinians or should I say Hamas? .. this from the thread.
I think, when one is wrong in picking up the wrong end of the stick, one should admit it. I do occasionally
Re: Since the question has been posed and the answer was forthcoming ..
t: Could you please confirm that now you have been convinced that all the rape cr*p has now been debunked and that in essence we are recognising that all these stories were basically hasbara? Can we agree on that?
SueC: No, I don't think we can agree that all the rape "stories were basically hasbara". Contrary to what you seem to believe, I have never stated that the Israeli claims of mass rape by Hamas were correct and should be taken as absolute truth. Rape and sexual violence, however, are, sadly, very much a part of warfare and I think it very likely that women were sexually assaulted during the events of 7th October. Systematic rape by Hamas fighters as part of their tactics? No, I think that's unlikely - isolated rapes either by Hamas or by members of Palestinian groups who followed behind Hamas primarily intent on looting, well, yes, I think that is probable. Anyone who has followed Islamist attacks on civilians in other parts of the world knows how often the mutilation of bodies, genital mutilation and the taking of body parts feature. I'm not a member of the 'Our Hamas Wouldn't Do That' club and think that some of their members might indeed be capable of such brutality.
t: Do you not also agree that you were somewhat over-cautious on joining in with Gaza genocide condemnations because .. you do .. not to trust Palestinians or should I say Hamas? .. this from the thread.
SueC; Again, unfortunately, we can't agree. I most definitely do not trust Hamas. In war, ALL sides lie. This shouldn't be a contentious statement. Hamas is, first and foremost, an Islamist movement - it advocates a highly repressive ideology and it astonishes me that people on this board seem to think it's some sort of progressive force.
Is there anything else about my views I can help you with?
I find that response problematic on several levels ..
SueC: No, I don't think we can agree that all the rape "stories were basically hasbara". Contrary to what you seem to believe ..
You think that I believe that:
.. Israeli claims of mass rape by Hamas were correct and should be taken as absolute truth
Whaat. I never said that. For info, I haven't the time or energy to link to your past comments but do have some memory re your past statements (as commented by other posters in the thread).
I find it astonishing that you make claims like this:
Anyone who has followed Islamist attacks on civilians in other parts of the world knows how often the mutilation of bodies, genital mutilation and the taking of body parts feature.
Tarring with that terrorist brush all Muslims is Islamophobia. SueC please consider that there are more than a billion Muslims on our planet. They .. are .. not all .. terorrrist. Can we please agree on that, at least. Such conflation is so dodgy it almost forces me to dismiss your comments entirely.
As it happens I bungled the second comment - not constructed correctly:
t: Do you not also agree that you were somewhat over-cautious on joining in with Gaza genocide condemnations because .. you do .. not to trust Palestinians or should I say Hamas? .. this from the thread.
SueC: Again, unfortunately, we can't agree. I most definitely do not trust Hamas. In war, ALL sides lie. This shouldn't be a contentious statement. Hamas is, first and foremost, an Islamist movement - it advocates a highly repressive ideology and it astonishes me that people on this board seem to think it's some sort of progressive for ..
What I meant to say is that you considered that going to pro-Palestine demos was dangerous and one should desist. Look up what you said please. Again, I find this preposterous and shan't even comment on it.
Is there anything else about my views I can help you with?
Thanks for the offer, it is unlikely that you can help without clearing up the issues I have raised.
As you perfectly well know, there was NO conflation of Muslims with Islamist terrorists
You're a dishonest debater, t - as you perfectly well know, I referred to Islamist terror attacks on civilians where mutilation, genital mutilation and the taking of body parts as some sort of trophy feature. I said nothing whatsoever about Muslims in general and, indeed Muslims are often victims of Islamist attacks. There was NO conflation of Muslims in general with Islamist terror groups.
Re: As you perfectly well know, there was NO conflation of Muslims with Islamist terrorists
Apart from the fact that I am genuinely trying to detect truth, contrary to your claim that I am a 'dishonest debater' (slur if anyone needs to be acquainted with such an animal, ad hom for others). I have laid out my wares. I like to think I have detected Islamophobia, and I am sticking with it. Thanks.
on May 2, 2024, 3:06 pm
. However, once I started reading it I was bewildered with her flag-shagging comments, hence my initial caveat that I haven't analysed it. I had to go out .. 
