I got into a heated argument with an anti-palestine protest man
Posted by John Monro on May 15, 2024, 1:51 am
About twenty odd folk from my town here in NZ, Martinborough (small town of about 1500 residents, in a wine growing area, excellent pinot noir by the way) gather every Wednesday for an hour in peaceful solidarity with Palestinians killed, maimed or otherwise abused in Gaza. Most folk support us, friendly toots from passing cars. One middle aged man wasn't so happy, and called us Hamas apologists, going on about the claimed atrocities done on 7th October including one about a baby being burned alive in an oven. Now as far as I am aware, most of the worst of these claims have never been verified, and indeed most proven untrue. However, perhaps a baby was burned alive, I don't know. But neither does he.
But what particularly got me annoyed is that we were standing in front of the war memorial, every town or village has one, and we've just commemorated ANZAC day. He shouted that they didn't die for us to support a murderous organisaition, we should be ashamed.
That really angered me for one, we're told they died for our freedom, if that is so then that doesn't mean much if we cannot stand and protest. How the hell does he know what they died for and what they'd think if they were alive now?
However, even more it annoyed me because these soldiers in WW1 in particular died for nothing at all They were conned, deceived, manipulated and abused by powers and ideologies they didn't understand or know, and until we recognise this simple fact that war is the ultimate in futility we'll never progress and we'll keep repeating them.
"However, perhaps a baby was burned alive, I don't know. But neither does he."
The story was never verified by anybody. It in fact reflects an incident reported to have taken place at the massacre of Deir Yassin in 1948 where the baby thrown in an oven was actually Palestinian and the perpetrators Jewish.
Re: I got into a heated argument with an anti-palestine protest man
It's depressing how many people immediately go "Well on October the 7th...." as if that was the start of anything and Israel was just sitting there peacefully making cheese and knitting before that.
When you tell them that the Palestinian actions, although of course not the war crimes, are the ones justified in international law and Israel doesn't actually have any right of self-defence in the illegally occupied territories I think I might actually see a brain explode one of these times.
It's a demonstration of how people can say on one hand, "I don't trust journalists and the media" but then on the other immediately regurgitate all their talking points. It's propaganda by osmosis.
Unless they are zionists in which case they are beyond help and it doesn't matter what evidence you show them....no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party...So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.
i mention the baby one as he went on about the other "atrocities", the mass rapes, the beheaded babies etc. I told him this is just Israeli propaganda, and there's no confirmation, He just got angrier and repeated his claims even louder. The baby one I did check up on, on one URL I found a mention of a baby found in an oven, but no-one actually knows how it got there. The story didn't make much sense in any case as he claimed it was a microwave. I suppose a decapitade limbless torso you might be able to squeeze into a microwave, but I haven't tried it, and I doubt anyone ever has.
I don't think it's an exaggeration to say a lot of zionists are brainwashed, or at the very least heavily indoctrinated and it takes actual deprogramming to get them to see objective reality. There are lots of interviews with people that were zionists and their experiences are amazingly similar to people who left cults.
The person you argued with sounds more like a casually propagandised media victim so the more evidence they hear, the more chance they have of coming around although "on the street" is usually not a conducive environment for that as it tends to be more confrontational.
...no amount of cajolery, and no attempts at ethical or social seduction, can eradicate from my heart a deep burning hatred for the Tory Party...So far as I am concerned they are lower than vermin.
“Never argue with a man whose job depends on not being convinced.”
For circumstances like that, you need some well rehearsed spontaneous remarks like "show me", "you're talking bollocks", "it began with zionist atrocities in the 30s" and my favourite "fuck off yer red-nosed twat".The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016 Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018 Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021
on May 15, 2024, 1:51 am