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Doctorow: Trump’s Plan for Ukraine (Nima)

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 6, 2025, 1:06 pm

Doctorow seems to have a good handle on Trump's machinations imo.

Krainer: Will the US Get Stuck in the Middle East? (Nima)

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 6, 2025, 2:05 pm, in reply to "Doctorow: Trump’s Plan for Ukraine (Nima)"

Re: Doctorow: Trump’s Plan for Ukraine (Nima)

Posted by RaskolnikovX <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 6, 2025, 4:21 pm, in reply to "Doctorow: Trump’s Plan for Ukraine (Nima)"

Reagan wasn't that bad? Trump's Gaza plan is brilliant? It's all cope and "Trump's playing 4d chess" style.

"It will mean the end of the genocide" because the apartheid state can't bomb it anymore. Ignoring that it comes at the price of ethnic cleansing and removal of the Palestinians.

I'm 15 minutes in and if the rest of it is this bad, he can keep it.

The corporate media are complicit in the Gaza genocide.
Never forget what they did. Never forgive them for it.

Re: Doctorow: Trump’s Plan for Ukraine (Nima)

Posted by RaskolnikovX <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 6, 2025, 4:30 pm, in reply to "Re: Doctorow: Trump’s Plan for Ukraine (Nima)"

Thought he was better on Russia/Iran but he still has a riduclously rose-tinted view of Trump as some high-level game-theoretic-optimal strategist.

The corporate media are complicit in the Gaza genocide.
Never forget what they did. Never forgive them for it.

Re: Doctorow: Trump’s Plan for Ukraine (Nima)

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 6, 2025, 5:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Doctorow: Trump’s Plan for Ukraine (Nima)"

"It will mean the end of the genocide" because the apartheid state can't bomb it anymore. Ignoring that it comes at the price of ethnic cleansing and removal of the Palestinians.

Most (other) pundits think that removal of Palestinians is not on the cards i.e. impossible. So Trump is bloviating there, perhaps pleasing his donors at no cost. I also don't see septics putting their military into Gaza.

See Aaron Maté's alt viewpoint below.

Re: Doctorow: Trump’s Plan for Ukraine (Nima)

Posted by RaskolnikovX <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 6, 2025, 6:22 pm, in reply to "Re: Doctorow: Trump’s Plan for Ukraine (Nima)"

I agree; Aaron is less qualified in an academic sense but he's been excellent on Gaza and has really turned into a heavy-hitter in the last couple of years.

He says what he's found to be true, rather than what he wishes were true, which I see quite often with Ritter and the libertarian crew.

The corporate media are complicit in the Gaza genocide.
Never forget what they did. Never forgive them for it.

Maté : Does Trump Understand Gaza? (Nap)

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 6, 2025, 4:52 pm, in reply to "Doctorow: Trump’s Plan for Ukraine (Nima)"

Re: Maté : Does Trump Understand Gaza? (Nap)

Posted by RaskolnikovX <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 6, 2025, 5:16 pm, in reply to "Maté : Does Trump Understand Gaza? (Nap)"

This is much better on Gaza/apartheid state. I may have to listen to the other one again but I don't recall much, if any, criticism of the apartheid state. Plenty of "Trump has trapped Netanyahu" and other 4d chess copes. Aaron is right on the money here.

The corporate media are complicit in the Gaza genocide.
Never forget what they did. Never forgive them for it.

Pepe Escobar : World Reaction to Trump On Gaza (Nap)

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 6, 2025, 7:55 pm, in reply to "Doctorow: Trump’s Plan for Ukraine (Nima)"

It seems Ritter and Pepe agree on Trump's machinations @10:00 odd.

Re: Pepe Escobar : World Reaction to Trump On Gaza (Nap)

Posted by RaskolnikovX <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 7, 2025, 7:13 am, in reply to "Pepe Escobar : World Reaction to Trump On Gaza (Nap)"

I'm no oil painting but Judge Nap is getting to be one weird looking mother fucker; he wouldn't look out of place as the bar-tender in some tavern in middle earth.

Anyway, that non-malicious ad-hom out of the way, I was interested in the comment about the numbers Trump used (1.7 million as compared to 2.4 pre-genocide) and even though almost everyone thinks the current casualty counts are undercooked by at least 100%, 600,000 would be staggering. If it was that high surely there would be some sense of the number of missing people.

I posted something a while back which explained why the count was so low with a lot of stuff I hadn't seen elsewhere, but even that wouldn't account for that much of a discrepancy. This has to be the tangerine tyrant just pulling numbers out of his arse.

I just found the interview that had info on the undercount of casualtes; it was in a Katie Halper interview of Susan Abulhawa. Even so, I doubt it will account for another 500,000 people.

https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/msg/1734598697.html

The corporate media are complicit in the Gaza genocide.
Never forget what they did. Never forgive them for it.

There's a basic contradiction here I just don't understand

Posted by scrabb <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=scrabb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 7, 2025, 3:07 pm, in reply to "Re: Pepe Escobar : World Reaction to Trump On Gaza (Nap)"

Doctororow seems to be saying that Trump was "brilliant" in springing a surprise on Netanyawhu (evident in his body language)by saying that the US owning and was taking over Gaza would mean Israel couldn't continue its bombing campaign and this would ensure lasting peace. In other words the genocide was halted.

Aaron Mate says the exact opposite. He claims Trump's unstated plan is to allow Israel to "finish the job" by continuing to carpet bomb Gaza until the people there had no choice but to leave and settle elsewhere.

So which is it? Who is right? Doctorow or Mate? Or are they both wrong? Nobody knows the eventual outcome of course, but these two are using the same information and statements from Trump to reach opposite conclusions.

Re: There's a basic contradiction here I just don't understand

Posted by RaskolnikovX <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 7, 2025, 4:07 pm, in reply to "There's a basic contradiction here I just don't understand"

I'm definitely leaving to Maté's take on things. Doctorow is clearly a libertarian-fringe republican and on the apartheid state he is interpreting things the way he wants them to be and is constantly trying to give a positive spin to the mango mussolini's latest screeching.

None of them seem to have that many contacts within the administration, even the gang of old "deep-staters" from Judge Nap's stable. I'm sure they must have some contacts somewhere nearby who give them some inside information but if you look back at their predictions a while later, and Ritter is infamous for this, they are quite often wrong and usually well wrong.

Maté's take seemed much more based on the evidence and the recent history.

I guess we'll see. Personally I think it's much more likely that Netanyahu has enticed Trump into the action with the promise of a cut of all the reconstruction action as we all know that's what motivates him. That and a hundred million dollars from Adelson.

Just for more info, here's Max on the same topic via Judge Nap:

[url=

The corporate media are complicit in the Gaza genocide.
Never forget what they did. Never forgive them for it.

Re: There's a basic contradiction here I just don't understand

Posted by RaskolnikovX <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 7, 2025, 4:18 pm, in reply to "Re: There's a basic contradiction here I just don't understand"

Max and Aaron seem much more realistic on Gaza than Doctorow and Max brings receipts in that video ("Plan Neon" for example). I know where my money is going.

The corporate media are complicit in the Gaza genocide.
Never forget what they did. Never forgive them for it.

Re: There's a basic contradiction here I just don't understand

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 7, 2025, 4:35 pm, in reply to "There's a basic contradiction here I just don't understand"

Nobody knows the eventual outcome of course, but these two are using the same information and statements from Trump to reach opposite conclusions.

Trump is a Chaos Bomb, TM by Pepe Escobar.

Depending on your disposition one could say that Mate is a pessimist and makes his judgements based on the past actions by Israel .. and thus could be correct. Otoh what Doctorow says may have some merit and some pundits agree. Slim chance but possible.

Trump making the claim that USA will 'own' Gaza does not making any sense from the international law perspective i.e. Soprano type statement, suggests he is making things up for different audiences. On the plus side, Trump's intervention has stopped the bombing and hostages are being exchanged in stage 1. The hard part will be in stages 2 and 3. If these are implemented Satanyahu will most likely go to jail unless he pops his clogs. Etc etc

Re: There's a basic contradiction here I just don't understand

Posted by scrabb <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=scrabb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 7, 2025, 5:46 pm, in reply to "Re: There's a basic contradiction here I just don't understand"

Max Blumenthal seems to have got the balance about right. At least that's how it seems to me. Perhaps it's no surprise that Doctorow, Mate, Escobar, Blumenthal, Ritter, Crooke et al cannot agree on a joint position because they are striving to interpret the incoherent babble of a man with a serious mental condition. Trump himself doesn't know what he's saying most of th time; and even after he's spoken he has no idea what it means.

This is the logic of a child of 5 or 6 which is similar to the logic of a senile person. What they say makes some kind of sense as they are saying it but 10 seconds later they can say the exact opposite and it still makes sense (to them).

Re: There's a basic contradiction here I just don't understand

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 7, 2025, 8:14 pm, in reply to "Re: There's a basic contradiction here I just don't understand"

Max Blumenthal seems to have got the balance about right.

Need to see it yet ..

You say:

Trump himself doesn't know what he's saying most of th time; and even after he's spoken he has no idea what it means.

And ..

This is the logic of a child of 5 or 6 which is similar to the logic of a senile person. What they say makes some kind of sense as they are saying it but 10 seconds later they can say the exact opposite and it still makes sense (to them).

You are underestimating him. Also, like I said, he is a Chaos Bomb. So contradictory statements are more or less de rigueur. It is also hoped that he will try and not get labelled as Genocide Don re phase 2 and 3 of Gaza. Time will tell.

Another analysis by Ritter I posted above .. seems like a good one ..

I'd highly recommend having a look at Marandi/Crooke talk posted by Ken above nm

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on February 7, 2025, 9:21 pm, in reply to "Re: There's a basic contradiction here I just don't understand"

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