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FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?

Posted by Der <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Der' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2025, 12:05 am

https://fair.org/slider/did-left-journalists-buy-into-right-wing-ideology-or-were-they-bought/

Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?

Posted by Shyaku <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Shyaku' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2025, 5:46 am, in reply to "FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?"

My humble opinion:

taibbi really has uncritically joined with the right. He has adopted so many of their priorities entirely at the expense of his own previous ones. I think he sees this rather cynically as his best career opportunity.

Greenwald, like many others including actually Ralph Nader, is simply a left-right alliance guy who sees some issues of common cause alongside other issues of difference, and is not intimidated to ally on the common causes. There are a number of principled US libertarians who are actually among the fiercest consumer advocates, the boldest privacy advocates, the most committed right-to-repair advocates. antiwar.com is libertarian, nakedcapitalism is libertarian, unz.com is libertarian, Judge Nap, etc. and they all get posted here, all are principled and committed, some are willing to share their audiences with people like Max Blumenthal, while many on the opposite side we refer to now as the “so called left”. I don’t see what Greenwald and Dore are doing as a betrayal, I see it as an opportunity to reach and convert a wider audience - an audience perhaps with some form of a sense of injustice that has traditionally been expressed in other ways.

Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?

Posted by RaskolnikovX <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2025, 7:43 am, in reply to "Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?"

I posted an interview with the author on this book here:

https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/msg/1739690912.html

I think your take on it is dead on as far as Taibbi goes and it's what I've posted on him here several times. I was a big fan and still rate all of his books as superb journalism but it's clear what he's done and why.

Dore however is pure grifter and much like Taibbi just (without the credit of the journalistic record behind him or even the pretence of investigative journalism to come) and it's utterly obvious. Dore isn't trying to convert anyone; he's click farming and spewing MAGA talking points because it gets the most dollars.

Greenwald was always a liberatarian but the thing that brought him to most liberal's attention was Assange so they assumed he was "one of them" on all the other issues. His "arrangement" with Thiel is troubling though as covered in "Owned".

The corporate media are complicit in the Gaza genocide.
Never forget what they did. Never forgive them for it.

Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?

Posted by Ian M <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ian+M' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2025, 3:08 pm, in reply to "FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?"

Not particularly fair, or accurate IMO. Too many of his sources (apart from the book) go to msm hit pieces, and the author relies on guilt by association (Cruz, Peterson, Jones, Carlson etc) and petty tribalism rather than engagement with what Taibbi or Greenwald have actually said. So what if they share spaces and have friendly discussions with these people? Isn't there a value to introducing people on the right to their work? As long as they don't play along with opinions that run counter to their core principles, I don't see the problem. He claims Taibbi and Greenwald have gone soft on free speech since Trump, but that doesn't appear to be the case at least with Greenwald, who has come out strongly on the recent arrest of the pro-Palestine protester at Columbia. Due Dissidence covered this recently, acknowledging how their own material has attracted the MAGA crowd, but noting that sticking to their principles will entail either alienating & driving away, or - *shock* - successfully persuading that audience over to their point of view. They also say that Greenwald lost 10-15% of paid subscribers to his rumble show over stances he's taken since Oct 7th:

I don't know enough about Taibbi to comment, but I expect Dore will be losing a lot of his audience over his anti-Israel stance too.

Back in the article you get the off-hand aside to smear M.Blumenthal as an 'Assadist' and 'covid denialist', another typical liberal tactic of discrediting someone without going to the trouble of actually responding to their work... Not surprising to read that the author has been published in 'the Nation, the Guardian, the Forward, the Brooklyn Rail, Vice News, In These Times, Jacobin' and others. Isn't it a bit of a ... grift to be angling for publication in these corporate rags?

Anyway, Greenwald, Taibbi and others could be pivoting to the populist right, anything's possible. The left is so completely out to lunch at this point you could hardly blame them for trying to increase their impact in this way, especially when they get nothing but abuse on the other side. If they stay true to their principles though, I expect they will reach a point where they're excommunicated from the right wing crowd too. If not, then the article may have a point. In the meantime, forgive the bible quote but: By their fruits you will know them.

cheers,
I

Tell your story; Ask a question; Interpret generously
http://storybythethroat.wordpress.com/tell-ask-listen/

Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2025, 4:23 pm, in reply to "Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?"

I don't know much about Taibbi but I wouldn't put it past liberals to shit-stir against them. As for Dore, I'm puzzled by the animus against him. He's really gone off the boil these last few years and has been banging the swill bucket which suggests that his show is short of money but he still gets decent guests. as for talking to Proud Boys and Maga types etc, if you don't invite people to join you, what's the point??

The last working-class hero in England.

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?

Posted by RaskolnikovX <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2025, 4:28 pm, in reply to "Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?"

I agree Higgins is a "mainstream acceptable" journalist and thus suspect and, as I noted in my original post on this book, he had previous with Greenwald.

I definitely distinguish between Greenwald and Taibbi (Dore I'm just done with because it's so screamingly obvious, way more so than with Taibbi [with whom he's lately started teaming up to spout MAGA garbage]. There's just no debate left to be had there, at least for me. Wasting no more time on him. Go to his channel page, click on videos and scroll through them and look at the subjects. "Matt and Jimmy Reconsider Climate Change" was one of the recent highlights. Almost no "anti-israel" commentary; about two very short videos out of the first hundred and fifty I looked at. Lots of stuff about RFK Jr, vaccines and Musk/DOGE though. Stick a fork in his ass, he's done).

Greenwald however still does stand up for his principles; free speech being a strong one and he's been critical of the recent madness in the Mump administration. The role of Thiel in his shiny new platform is still a cause for concern but his output has changed the least out of the three of them.

The corporate media are complicit in the Gaza genocide.
Never forget what they did. Never forgive them for it.

Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2025, 4:30 pm, in reply to "Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?"

My 'he's gone off the boil' is perhaps your 'he's sold the pass'.

The last working-class hero in England.

Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ? ? ? - 4 November 2021

Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?

Posted by johnhol <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=johnhol' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2025, 7:45 pm, in reply to "Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?"

A couple of old critiques of Greenwald re working for Omidyar and his handling of the Snowden leaks. Both are from 2013.

Arthur Silver - The Doctrine of Exceptionalism Extends Its Reach

https://powerofnarrative.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-doctrine-of-exceptionalism-extends.html?m=1

Tarzie - Fuck The Guradian: Take Your Drip and Stick It

https://ohtarzie.wordpress.com/2013/09/10/fuck-the-guardian-take-your-drip-and-stick-it/

Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?

Posted by johnhol <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=johnhol' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2025, 7:50 pm, in reply to "Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?"

That should be Arthur Silber.

Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?

Posted by Ian M <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ian+M' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2025, 7:58 pm, in reply to "Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?"

Glad to hear you respect Greenwald and agree he has stayed true to principles so far. I'd agree that billionaire ownership of your platform is automatically suspect and means there's an incentive to not criticise anything to do with the owner's interests. However, Greenwald probably has enough of a personal brand that he doesn't absolutely need sponsorship in that way, and his willingness to resign from the Intercept because of censorship indicates that he would do the same if his work was spiked in a similar way by Thiel or one of his minions.

I won't force you to watch it, as I know your feelings about Dore, but in fairness I felt like I should post this part of the recent Taibbi interview where both of them agree that Trump has behaved in an authoritarian manner with the pro-Palestine censorship & threats to cut university funding:

Greenwald makes an appearance to argue the 1st amendment legalistics of it. Taibbi looks a bit uncomfortable about the Israel criticism (though he always seems a bit 'squirmy', so maybe that's no different to usual?), but he does agree that Trump has shot himself in the foot over this free speech violation. For some reason he seems to think JD Vance is better on the issue. Dore resists Taibbi's depiction of it as a 'mistake', suggesting Trump knows it's wrong, and even against the wishes of his supporters, but pushed ahead with it anyway because of being in the Adelson's pocket, but Taibbi doesn't accept that. Dore asserts that when he spoke at the Rescue the Republic rally there was some MAGA support of Palestine and agreement over arguments he made about the need to support free speech for pro-Palestinians - an example of what I mean of the value of speaking to those audiences.

Anyway, Taibbi seems more invested in the Republican party, whereas Dore sounds to me more like he's trying to use his influence from the outside to steer them in useful directions. But yeah, both have right wing audiences, and the 'audience capture' phenomenon is definitely still something to watch out for. That certainly would seem to explain Brand's recent rightwards lurch - unless the theory that he has been blackmailed is true...

Oh, and yes, Dore's climate change stance is bogus, I would agree. Fair play to criticise govt policies exploiting it to drive through their own agendas, but it doesn't follow that it isn't real, and all the climate scientists have been lying for 50+ years. Still waiting for him to interview someone who actually knows about the science, not just people reheating decades-old denier talking points that were debunked as soon as they first came out.

cheers,
I

Tell your story; Ask a question; Interpret generously
http://storybythethroat.wordpress.com/tell-ask-listen/

Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?

Posted by RaskolnikovX <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Raskolnikov' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2025, 8:29 pm, in reply to "Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?"

Lots of food for thought in those posts, thanks.

Less strident than my dismissal and more nuanced. I doubt I will relent on Dore now, and Taibbi although he has more credit in the bank, but the next year or so will be interesting.

The corporate media are complicit in the Gaza genocide.
Never forget what they did. Never forgive them for it.

No worries, glad if I could be of service :) nm

Posted by Ian M <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ian+M' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 15, 2025, 12:34 am, in reply to "Re: FAIR: Did Left Journalists (Taibbi, Greenwald) Buy Into Right-Wing Ideology, or Were They Bought?"

.

Tell your story; Ask a question; Interpret generously
http://storybythethroat.wordpress.com/tell-ask-listen/

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