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Russia won't allow Nato members on its borders. What about Finland?

Posted by scrabb <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=scrabb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 22, 2025, 2:19 pm

I realise I'm way behind the curve in asking this, but Russia's red line in nor permitting Nato members on its borders doesn't apply to Finland -- or does it?

Apologies for this naive question.

Re: Russia won't allow Nato members on its borders. What about Finland?

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 22, 2025, 2:32 pm, in reply to "Russia won't allow Nato members on its borders. What about Finland?"

Harry Palmer and Colonel Stok of the KGB will sort it out over several vodkas. ;O)

In the real world, both sides seem content to let sleeping dogs lie.

The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ??? - 4 November 2021
Georgina the cat ???-4 December 2025

Re: Russia won't allow Nato members on its borders. What about Finland?

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 22, 2025, 3:32 pm, in reply to "Russia won't allow Nato members on its borders. What about Finland?"

For info, other NATO countries on the Russian borders are Estonia, Latvia (2004) and Norway (1949) as a founding member.

The conversation should really be about nuclear weapons. None of them (+ Finland) have nukes on their soil.

Re: Russia won't allow Nato members on its borders. What about Finland?

Posted by Ken Waldron <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Ken+Waldron' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 22, 2025, 5:27 pm, in reply to "Russia won't allow Nato members on its borders. What about Finland?"

Aside from nuclear white elephants on the practical front the Taiga would be a bit of an obstacle for any NATO army invading from Finland.

Re: Russia won't allow Nato members on its borders. What about Finland?

Posted by scrabb <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=scrabb' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 22, 2025, 6:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Russia won't allow Nato members on its borders. What about Finland?"

Thanks for these contributions, most helpful. I think t puts his/her finger on it: it's the nuclear component that is crucial here. Why Putin objects to Ukraine in particular is because he knows they would welcome the deployment of US nuclear strike weapons on their soil, within easy reach of Moscow. Indeed, a secret agreement probably already exists between the US and Ukraine to establish nuke bases there.

Talking about land wars ..

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 22, 2025, 8:58 pm, in reply to "Re: Russia won't allow Nato members on its borders. What about Finland?"

.. as Ken alluded to, Finland would be useless for the land war, Ukraine has always been a point of entry for invasions of Russia:

Polish–Russian War (1609–1618)
Conflict between the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth and Russia during the Time of Troubles.

Polish–Russian War (1654–1667)
Resulted in significant territorial gains for Russia, including parts of Ukraine.

Swedish Invasion 1655-1660
Concurrent with the Polish–Russian War, where Sweden invaded the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.

Napoleon's Invasion 1812
Napoleon invaded Russia, leading to significant battles but ultimately a retreat due to harsh conditions.

Nevermind Finnish siege of Leningrad (as part of the Axis) and ..

Not forgetting the operation Barbarossa in 1941 by Third Reich.

The west has no chance of stealing Russian resources through land wars.

Polish-Soviet War (14 February 1919 – 18 March 1921)

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 23, 2025, 11:51 am, in reply to "Talking about land wars .."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish%E2%80%93Soviet_War

This is the one that Cold War historians tried to ignore.

The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ??? - 4 November 2021
Georgina the cat ???-4 December 2025

Re: Polish-Soviet War (14 February 1919 – 18 March 1921)

Posted by t <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=TomskiD' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 23, 2025, 6:27 pm, in reply to "Polish-Soviet War (14 February 1919 – 18 March 1921)"

Thanks for that. I sort of remembered it, after you posted it. I was relying on AI results which can be problematic unless you define the parameters in detail.

I didn't mention Mongol invasion since it came from a different direction, so to speak.

Re: Polish-Soviet War (14 February 1919 – 18 March 1921)

Posted by Keith-264 <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Keith-264' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 24, 2025, 11:04 am, in reply to "Re: Polish-Soviet War (14 February 1919 – 18 March 1921)"

When people like GG enumerate invasions of Russia from the west they tend to overlook it too.

The last working-class hero in England.
Clio the cat, ? July 1997 - 1 May 2016
Kira the cat, ? ? 2010 - 3 August 2018
Jasper the Ruffian cat ??? - 4 November 2021
Georgina the cat ???-4 December 2025

Re: Russia won't allow Nato members on its borders. What about Finland?

Posted by Shyaku <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/xxxxx/info/user=Shyaku' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on August 22, 2025, 9:37 pm, in reply to "Russia won't allow Nato members on its borders. What about Finland?"

NATO is spread right across Russia’s western border if you include the unitary state (Belarus).

When Russia started removing the threat from Ukraine, NATO successfully absorbed Finland. I think Russia’s response was “OK, we will take the necessary measures” and they reconstituted some northern guards/tank army in response. It wasn’t a great day for Russia, but Russian concern rises when troops actually move towards the border. This had actually happened in Ukraine, and I recall a quote from early on in the SMO (perhaps from The Saker’s site): If Barbarossa had started from the Donbass instead of western Ukraine, the invading army would have reached Stalingrad in 3 days. [and probably taken Stalingrad given the invading strength]. Instead of > 1 year.

My feeling is that if the NATO-grade army in Donbass had swept up the DNR and LNR in March 2022 as planned, they would likely have swept around and through a slice Russian territory behind the Donbass to complete the encirclement, and also as a humiliation, then kept it as a buffer zone. The immediate threat seems quite compelling. In Finland, there is no such provocation ongoing as far as I am aware, though there will likely be pin pricks in the future.

Hope that helps a bit.

Best regards, Shyaku

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