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Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Hangler on 15/12/2014, 7:07 am

The idea of free unlimited fun in the sun on one of Northland's most popular beaches could soon be a thing of the past.

Local Maori are considering introducing a number of changes including user pay fees along Ninety Mile Beach.

Far North Iwi, Te Rarawa, will soon have shared governance of the coastline following an estimated $70 million dollar settlement deal with the Crown.

Other changes are likely to include restrictions on beaches including a total ban of vehicles.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by GaryK on 15/12/2014, 7:17 pm, in reply to "Interesting precedent, could be."

Dont think it'll fly.

The snapper don't know where the car park is!
Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Hangler on 15/12/2014, 8:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

The same was said about public access to Mount Tarawera, and that flew. They also said Maori would never charge for using lake Taupo, that flew as well, they got a substantial amount of money from competitors in last year's Iron man.

I wouldn't put money on it not flying but it does occur to me the Ninety Mile Beach is designated as a public road. Any lawyer worth his salt should be able to substantiate Maori have no right to charge for use of an area that is already in the public domain.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by James HB on 16/12/2014, 10:47 am, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

They could also stuff their own economy due to commercial tourist interests pulling out of tours which provide the local economy with lots of income. The 90mile contest struggling as it is may be cancelled as that relies on access to the beach.
Would be funny if this does fly then they could do more damage to themselves and the area then to the fishos. Lots of other places to fish other than the 90.

No excuses, just get out there!!

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by SNAPPA NAPIER on 16/12/2014, 5:15 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

Just a few radicals beating their JUNGLE DRUMS. Like James said it would be so detrimental to the furtherest north economy why would they even consider the idea??. Plenty of other places in New Zealand to visit. Maybe they should just put an "h" in the name instead? "Ninethy Mile beach"……… and move on rather than digressing into the oldhern days

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Hangler on 16/12/2014, 5:57 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

I do not fish the far north beaches so I have no axe to grind with whatever the outcome. However, with the reports being carried by the media this has little to do with radicals, it is to do with a treaty settlement that give local iwi a strong say in what goes on with issues such as this. Further, they are in consultation with the council and I don't believe they are radicals either.

They are looking at several options, charging access to the beach, lowering speed limits on the beach and in certain cases, banning vehicles from the beach.

When the land of the Kaingaroa forest was given to local Maori as part of a settlement deal, the first thing they did was to stop all access on Goudes Road that runs between Reporoa and state highway 38 at Kaingaroa. Nobody, including school buses, could use that road anymore adding 60 kilometres to the trip school children had to take to attend the high school and college. The next move was to stop access to anglers who wished to fish the Flaxy lakes, the Wheo canal and a long stretch of the Rangitaiki river. Along with my late wife we ran a fishing lodge at Aniwhenua for several years, I know what I am talking about. I have been moved away from this area for about four years, this may have now changed. These are facts, this is what Maori did when they were given settlement.

There is also a possibility a professional tour company could come to an arrangement with local iwi where they purchase the sole right to have access to the beach for the tourist route to the Cape. There are many precedents that can be found where ownership changes the game completely.

At present a representative suggested a gold coin donation or a gift of 'koha' could gain access. The problem here being once those gold coins are added together it will not take long until someone suggests they are in fact sitting on a very nice little earner, like it or not the far north is a terribly depressed area and locals need to make money wherever and whenever they can. In my opinion, anything that achieves that aim will get backing from the council.

Locals could also support the Ninety fishing comp. They could well impose a daily tariff for anglers and charge for camping on the beach. This charge would also be supported by council.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Rex HB on 17/12/2014, 11:33 am, in reply to "Interesting precedent, could be."

http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11375475

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Hangler on 17/12/2014, 3:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

Rex, next month I will be seventy-two years of age. I can say hand on heart I gave up believing what MPs say a very long time ago.

The happenings on the governance of far north beaches is nothing to do with central government, the treaty settlement has handed the issue to local iwi and the council.

I am confident that you, like me, can think of many issues where MPs of all parties say one thing, then do the exact opposite. Kelvin Davis is an MP of only a few week's standing. Maori will make up their own minds about what they wish to achieve regarding the beaches. This has all the makings of the bloody farce called the foreshore and seabed act of a few years ago.

Me a cynic? Only where politicians are concerned, especially one who is still wet behind the ears, and I don't mean that rudely about Kelvin Davis, it just happens to be true.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by GaryK on 17/12/2014, 7:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

I heard that Kelvin davis was a good bloke with possibilities of going a long way in polotics, Didnt he do his groundwork in the far north, he must have an idea of whats happening and likely to happen.

Give him a chance Hangler he might just be our man in the far north.

The snapper don't know where the car park is!
Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Hangler on 17/12/2014, 8:59 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

Gary, Kelvin may be a very good man and he may go a long way in politics. However, as he is neither on the council or a member of the iwi who now have charge of the beaches I can't see him making any difference.

As already mentioned, I don't fish the far north beaches so it makes no difference to me if they charge or not. On the other hand, to you guys who do visit that area regularly, history is not exactly in your favour. Should regulations come into effect that impact on your access then don't come complaining on this site.

I could suggest the NZACA association make their feelings known very early in the piece, but again that could be a little simplistic.

God I wish I had your faith and in a politician. I find that akin to believing in promised tax cuts and a projected trade surplus.

Flying pigs anyone?

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Frosty on 18/12/2014, 8:58 am, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

Hangler, before you start scare mungering and getting people all up in arms I suggest to get your facts right before you open your mouth.Mate it sounds to me like you have a real beef with maori and you need to pull your head out of your ass and suck in a bit of relaxing air

Gary, James, Kane and Rex thanks for your valued comments

. as most people know who have been up here the economy is so fragile and if anything like this where to happen our local economy would collapse and when you get miss informed idiots making genrerlised comments that doen't help ether. P.S. Kelvin Davis a top bloke, didnt vote for him but he has the MANA of the people up here and thats why he is in parliment.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Hangler on 18/12/2014, 2:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

Frosty, the opening post was a direct cut and paste from the nation's number one broadcaster. If you believe that to be scaremongering then contact TVNZ, their address is widely available on the Internet.

The idea of a gold coin donation or koha came from a television one news broadcast, the gentleman who was interviewed was part of the iwi who now have control over the beaches. I can't quote him verbatim but he said these are just a few of the ideas they will be discussing. I don't believe he was scaremongering, I believe he was simply airing his views on what could happen.

All the posts I made on this thread are factual, they are reports of what has happened when Maori have been granted settlement over historical treaty issues. Sorry but that isn't scaremongering either.

With regard to the fragile economy I have already mentioned as much in an earlier post and strangely that is one reason why I believe something will happen, not why it won't. There are similar areas in New Zealand where Maori have difficulty in sustaining a reasonable standard of living: Murupara, Reporoa and Tokeroa to name a few. Treaty settlements are designed in principal to help support the areas to become more self sufficient. Oddly, that isn't scaremongering either.

I mentioned there are precedents, I happily quote you one where this exact same idea was floated and then put into action. Lake Taupo has its own fishing licence, part of the fishery is the Tauranga Taupo River. Local iwi put a charge on the access road through the old quarry, exactly the same as those being considered in the far north. Their reasoning was exactly the same, you have to cross Maori land to gain access to the middle reaches of the river. That isn't scaremongering either, it is fact. I haven't fished Taupo for a very long time, so whether that charge is still in place I am not sure. At the time the Taupo iwi were also given fifty percent of the revenue gained from Taupo licence sales, this payment was to compensate for anglers crossing Maori land.

I won't put my slant on the following, this is cut and pasted directly from the regulations.

Permit to enter Lake Rotoaira. Issued pursuant to Part 1 of the Maori Purposes Act 1959 (as amended by sections 9 and 10 of the Maori Purposes Act 1977) and the Rotoaira Trout Fishing Regulations 1979.
The holder of this entry permit [full name] of [full address, occupation] is hereby authorised to enter in and upon Lake Rotoaira from [date] to [date] (both days inclusive) or on [date] for the purposes of [specify].

Frosty, does that not read remarkably similar to what has been floated on the news this week? The charge may not be for using the beach, it will most likely be for gaining access, a totally different ball game.

I will not lower my post into personal attacks on you, I have however done my best to answer your many perceived faults with the topic. I will add I have no issue with Kelvin Davis, he has been a member of parliament for about six weeks, accordingly he has yet to show his mettle. Yes he is free to voice his opinion in parliament right up until voting time. At that juncture he will vote as the whips instruct him or he can cross the floor and vote against his own party. I only know of one such occasion when this has happened, I believe by Marilyn Waring, and it helped bring down the Muldoon government. Her threat was enough for the PM to call a snap election which he promptly lost to David Lange.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by fishbait on 19/12/2014, 9:11 am, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

The chairman of Te Runanga o Te Rarawa, Haami Piripiri said charging the public for access would be contrary to what the iwi was hoping to acheive once it had a say in how the beach was managed.
"We don't think it a good idea, it would put the wrong emphasis on the work we are trying to undertake"
Commercialisation of the beach would be the "total antithesis of those goals" also another quote,and this time from someone a bit higher up the food chain than some 'spokesperson' so we will wait and see.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Frosty on 19/12/2014, 12:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

Thanks fishbait for your input, if you live up my way pop in and say hi

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Hangler on 19/12/2014, 1:00 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

Would you pay to go on Ninety Mile Beach? User charges on the cards

The idea of free unlimited fun in the sun on one of Northland's most popular beaches could soon be a thing of the past.

Local Maori are considering introducing a number of changes including user pay fees along Ninety Mile Beach.

Far North Iwi, Te Rarawa, will soon have shared governance of the coastline following an estimated $70 million dollar settlement deal with the Crown.

Spokesperson, Abe Witana says, "it's not all about money, it's about preserving the environment, the uniqueness that we have up here in Te Hiku."

He says the fee system could work anywhere from a Koha system or gold coin donation to a concession type arrangement with commercial tourism operators.

Te Rarawa are setting up a governance board which will oversee a management plan of its beaches for when the settlement deal with the Crown passes legislation. The Far North District council and the Northland Regional Council with have members on the board.

Far North Mayor, John Carter, says it's too early to say whether they would support beach fees.

"I'm sure there will be different views on how that (beach management plan) should be developed but it's a community including iwi and all these developments are taking part and everybody's involved in it so we'll just see how that develops but I'm sure at the end of the day it'll be something that we all want".

There are mixed views from the locals.

"I don't think locals should have to pay but tourists.. Yeah I think that's fair enough".

Other changes are likely to include restrictions on beaches including a total ban of vehicles.

The Far North District Council is already working on introducing a bylaw which will see all vehicles on Coopers Beach banned along with lower speed restrictions along Ninety Mile Beach.

Mr Carter says it's about reducing conflict on the beach and protecting the safety of the public. He says they're supportive of other restrictions that will protect the beach goers and the coastline.

* * * * *

On the officialdom side: The mayor does not rule out charges, but covers himself by saying it's too early to say.

It is suggested locals should be free but tourists would be fair game. Not sure if someone visiting the far north from Hawke's Bay would be a tourist but as they are not locals it could well be so.

The one thing all sides of this debate agree on is that there will be changes. Whether those changes are beneficial or detrimental to visiting anglers and the future of the large surfcasting competition remains to be seen.

I still firmly believe it is not too early for the NZACA to have letters sent to the regional council, the local council and iwi making a strong case to be considered when the meetings to discuss the beach access get under way. Better to be represented at the start than trying to alter legislation once in place.

There is another word for a wait and see approach: apathy. I believe the guys (and girls) on this site who regularly make the pilgrimage to fish the far north will achieve more by making their feelings known and having written input at the earliest possible moment. Once those three bodies decide what action they intend to impose, nothing will shift them until they have assessed the results of quite a lengthy trial period. If you guys see it differently then I hope you are happy with the results.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by GaryK on 19/12/2014, 2:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

New Zealand beaches are for New Zealanders and who ever they invite to share them Hangler. Why bother trying to advocate a them and us approach. You obviously do not have faith in our politicians to work things out, what about the beach users, should they be involved? You could offer your services to go up and chair a meeting or two seeing no one else can be trusted.
Frosty, whats the local feeling up there?

It would be sad to see the end of this and all it means to everyone north of Auckland.

The snapper don't know where the car park is!
Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Frosty on 19/12/2014, 3:52 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

Hi gary, very well put mate. Hangler it seems, seems to have a number of issues in his life and really are quite disturbing. As I said mate pull your head out of the 19th century sand and suck up some of that beutiful 21st century air. Its fabulous lol. The feeling up here Gary is "whats the problem" Basically you have media who here something out of the ordinary and they latch on to that and neglect the rest of the interview and then blow it all out of proportion. Thats when the likes of our cynical Hangler get hold of the info and advance the bullshit even further out of proportion.
Hangler chill out mate and enjoy your life instead of looking for all the bad things in our beutiful country.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by SNAPPA NAPIER on 19/12/2014, 5:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

I think its time Hangler for you to take up talk back radio….. and even then you'd probably be too negative for that…. I really don't enjoy reading you almost always negative comments. Il be polite and leave it at that. Don't think you'd like my other response. Looking forward to the Far North in 2015!

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Rex HB on 19/12/2014, 6:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

I was always puzzled by this claim. The Marine and Coastal Area (Takutai Moana) Bill
guarantees free public access in the common marine and coastal area which is pretty much all non landlocled beaches in NZ. I've only ever been to the 90 mile beach once and I can't really remember it but it seemed to me that it clearly fell into common marine and coastal area by default really. No one could legally ever charge for it. Access rights ie vehicles might change in order to protect the shellfish beds I don't know. Hopefully commonsense will prevail on that.
Ive often thought about how great it would be to design a type of four wheel beach pushbike with a cart trailer to ride down beaches. Why not start thinking about it now because the days of petrol guzzlers are numbered and this is on the radar whether we like it or not. Now Phil Kettles a legendary shed designer? Cmon Phil I'll invest in the company.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Bobmac on 19/12/2014, 7:54 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

Yahoo Rex, even at 64 I'll buy one of these bad boys, fit some rod holders and I'm away.https://surlybikes.com/bikes/pugsley

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by GaryK on 19/12/2014, 8:28 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

Bikes are for people who dont know how long 90 Mile Beach is.

The snapper don't know where the car park is!
Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Rex HB on 19/12/2014, 8:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

There's always a skeptic. Don't worry we'll build a turbo solar powered electric tandem for you with matching parasols.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by GaryK on 20/12/2014, 1:07 pm, in reply to "Interesting precedent, could be."

Hangler and Willy Jackson on Radio Live. Now that would be worth listening too.

The snapper don't know where the car park is!
Sometimes it is better to travel than to arrive.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Frosty on 21/12/2014, 1:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

you are such a bad boy Gary, but I do like it.

Re: Interesting precedent, could be.

Posted by Rex HB on 21/12/2014, 2:12 pm, in reply to "Re: Interesting precedent, could be."

Yep the Pugsley. Its a start those fat tyred beasts.

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