Automotive Discussion

Post a Response

Performing Rights Society Again #

Posted by Keith Simpson on January 18, 2012, 6:58 pm
Message modified by board administrator January 20, 2012, 8:40 am

Hi I have been contacted again about a music license for workshop. It's been a long time since the last phone call, and just wondered if anyone else have had the same.

Regards

Keith

Re: Performing Rights Society Again

Posted by sean savage on January 18, 2012, 10:22 pm, in reply to "Performing Rights Society Again "

Yep. And quickly filed it under b.i.n as with previous letters. think they must choose areas to target at different times. my radios playing the staff are happy and working so please try and turn it off. i dare you!!

Re: Performing Rights Society Again

Posted by Steve Norman on January 19, 2012, 11:43 am, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again "
Steve Norman - Administrator

I have had them pestering me again.
A few years since the last time.
I had a letter, then a few phone calls.
I said to them I had previously given them the details, nothing had changed, & that their calls were nothing short of harassment, do not phone again or I will call the Police.... haven't heard from them again.

Regards
Steve

Re: Performing Rights Society Again

Posted by Graham Bullock on January 19, 2012, 11:48 am, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again "
Graham Bullock

I don't know if this helps, but I asked the same question on another forum & I got this reply:

If it's a radio broadcast that's being played and not a CD or other recording and the people listening are not being charged to do so and the broadcast doesn't substantially effect the prices paid (i.e. customers are not there for the music) then it's not a copyright infringement under the act.

EDIT: To save you reading it all here's the appropriate part of the act which I think exempts you from paying for a radio for your staff.
Please check the updates !

Copyright, Designs and Patents Act 1988

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/48/section/72

Section 72 Free public showing or playing of broadcast or cable programme -

(1) The showing or playing in public of a broadcast or cable programme to an audience who have not paid for admission to the place where the broadcast or programme is to be seen or heard does not infringe any copyright in—

(a) the broadcast or cable programme, or

(b) any sound recording or film included in it.

(2) The audience shall be treated as having paid for admission to a place if —

(a) they have paid for admission to a place of which that place forms part; or

(b) goods or services are supplied at that place (or a place of which it forms a part) — and

(i) at prices which are substantially attributable to the facilities afforded for seeing or hearing the broadcast or programme, or

(ii) at prices exceeding those usually charged there and which are partly attributable to those facilities.

(3) The following shall not be regarded as having paid for admission to a place —

(a) persons admitted as residents or inmates of the place;

(b) persons admitted as members of a club or society where the payment is only for membership of the club or society and the provision of facilities for seeing or hearing broadcasts or programmes is only incidental to the main purposes of the club or society.

Please remember that this is just one persons opinion/interpretation of the rule and may not necessarily be correct, but it stopped them pestering me.

Graham

Re: Performing Rights Society Again

Posted by Steve Norman on January 19, 2012, 12:02 pm, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again "

I have a much easier answer.... I don't play any music

Just had a phone call from PPL, another bloody company trying to extract money, same as PRS, but for recorded music!

I think I might start these conversations with It's our company policy to charge a fee of £30 to give any information about my company, please can I have their Credit card number?... see how they like it.

Re: Performing Rights Society Again #

Posted by mikefield on February 17, 2012, 1:10 pm, in reply to "Performing Rights Society Again #"
Mike Field

We got conned by these people a few years back. They use a sales motivated team to call as many companies as thay can. They harass you constanly if you give the slightest opening. What we do now (and to any other cold callers) is say THE DIRECTOR/OWNER/PROPRIETOR DOES NOT TAKE INCOMING TELEPHONE CALLS ALL CORESSPONDENCE IS BY E MAIL ONLY, then give your work email, that way you can respondor junk as appropriate. I am convinced they are on commision, so if you ignore them, they just move on to harass someone else easier.

Re: Performing Rights Society Again #

Posted by Craig Hewison on February 17, 2012, 3:33 pm, in reply to "Performing Rights Society Again #"
Craig Hewson

Hi guys

We had this a couple of years ago, we paid the PRS for ahead but then the second yeah they tried sticking us for the PPL too at which point our gaffa said 'eff this and eff that' and pulled our plug, we haven't had the radio on for nearly 12 months now and it's so depressing!!

My singing keeps everybody's spirits up tho ;-)

Craig

Re: Performing Rights Society Again #

Posted by Tony Sefton on February 18, 2012, 2:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again #"
Tony Sefton

One of Our Local garages has paid the PRS licence for the last few years after receiving a phone call asking if he could complete a 5 minute survey, They basically asked him which radio stations they listened to and as soon as he admitted to litening to one, They told him who they were and demanded payment. ( Conned )

This year he has now had a phone call from PPL saying that they know that he pays the PRS licence but has never had a PPL licence for the same period and he owes them £390 in back payment.

He has come to an agreement and paid them around a 3rd of the demand. ?

The lad from the garage says he talked to PPL and Even if you haven't got a Radio in the garage and have a laptop or PC capable of playing youtube or simlar channels then you need a PRS and PPL licence. ??

This like all other modern "subscriptions" is just a big con that will get totally out of proportion if they are allowed to keep getting away with it.

Tony.

Re: Performing Rights Society Again #

Posted by Nick Favell on February 21, 2012, 1:04 pm, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again #"
Nicholas Favell

Thanks Graham for that info and link.

I had PPL on the phone this morning, apparently they are not going to fine me for the years that I have had a radio on in the workshop, but will back charge me for last year and also charge me for next year.
The figure they want is around £140.00.

I can now tell them to go back amongst those pesky callers who want me to advertise in the 'emergency services' booklets that never seem to get printed. (yes I've been stung).

Nick

Re: Performing Rights Society Again # PETITION

Posted by kelly clarke on February 28, 2012, 5:05 pm, in reply to "Performing Rights Society Again #"
Kelly Clarke

Just had PPl on the phone demanding money and refudsed to pay now awaiting a backdated invoice for 2011 which i shall try not to pay but found this petition on the web i suggest we all sign it and pass it around facebook.
https://submissions.epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/18617

Kelly Clarke

Re: Performing Rights Society Again # PETITION

Posted by Tony Sefton on February 28, 2012, 8:31 pm, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again # PETITION"
Tony Sefton

I have also had a phone call from the PPL again Today.

The Guy was reasonable to deal with but I knew what to Expect and hopefully gave him the right answers, I told him that I unplugged the radio as soon as I heard about the PRS and PPL, He asked if I had a TV in the Customer waiting room. (

What waiting room ) I told him we hadn't.

He Accepted my answers and said "Thank you for your replies, I will make sure that we cross you off our list so that you don't get bothered again".

I have filled in the petition, So will see what happens from here.

Tony.

Re: Performing Rights Society Again #

Posted by david cogan on March 15, 2012, 10:02 pm, in reply to "Performing Rights Society Again #"
David Cogan

hi all,came across this court ruling today at www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-17379436 looks like we all can tell them to sod off! dave cogan

Re: Performing Rights Society Again #

Posted by keith brown on March 20, 2012, 2:20 pm, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again #"
Keith Brown

Bet the harrasing phone calls will die off now
those people should go out serve an apprenticeship get a proper qualification & a proper job and earn an honest living,i blame the govt, so much for protecting "small business" in this country.

Re: Performing Rights Society Again #

Posted by Nick Favell on March 21, 2012, 9:09 am, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again #"
Nicholas Favell

Once again thank you for posting such useful information here.
With the BBC report on the ruling from Brussels I can now reply to the invoice that is sitting in my in tray.
As 'Wolfie' used to say - power to the people - but you have to be old enough to remember

Nick

Re: Performing Rights Society Again #

Posted by Tony Sefton on March 21, 2012, 1:18 pm, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again #"
Tony Sefton

3 weeks since the last call and they are at it again.

I told him that they were supposed to be crossing me of their list and he said "That wouldn't have been me"

He asked if i played music or had background music on the phone and i said no, So he put the phone down.

Next time they had better get ready for both barrels.

Re: Performing Rights Society Again #

Posted by Kelly Clarke on March 21, 2012, 7:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again #"
Kelly Clarke

I have written to my MP asking questions he has passed it to the Communications MP for answers, I will let you all know the outcome

Kelly

Re: Performing Rights Society Again # Sole trader

Posted by Martin Kelly on April 20, 2012, 10:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again #"

I've had the usual pestering calls from PPL and the most recent was 10 days ago. I had heard that a sole trader was exempt so being a one-man-business I pursued this line and when I was asked what I do when visitors arrive I stated that firstly there is a notice saying No Unauthorised Entry and if they do enter I turn the radio off.
I was then told that I would receive an invoice for £71 approx.
I vented my annoyance and said I would appeal on the grounds of entrapment due to the line of questioning and lack of forthcoming help.
I then received the invoice, looked on the PPL website under FAQ's - 'I work alone do I need a PPL licence?' From PPL website below,

The courts have given guidance on the legal meaning of 'playing in public' and have determined that it covers any playing of music other than in a domestic context. There is no legal requirement for a minimum number of people to be present. On this basis, the playing of recorded music in a business environment will ordinarily require a PPL licence, including where this is only audible to workers. Recorded music can be a powerful business tool, whatever the size of the business.

However, PPL operates a discretionary licensing policy in respect of lone workers, as follows:

Lone workers in factories and offices
PPL does not require a business to obtain a licence under PPL's Factories & Offices tariff (PPL212) where both of the following criteria apply:

1. It is a factory or office with only one worker; and
2. Recorded music is not played at any time when any other person is at, or visiting, the premises (such as another staff member, a member of the public or any other visitor).

Please note that, in the event that a factory or office meets the above criteria but is also using recorded music in other ways (such as telephone music on hold), it would still require the appropriate PPL licence for those other uses.

Lone workers in other commercial premises
PPL similarly would not require a lone worker to obtain a licence to play recorded music as background music at other types of business premises, provided that it is not played at any time when any other person is at, or visiting, the premises.

An example would be a shop where there is only one member of staff, and recorded music is only played when the shop is closed to customers and other visitors. Under its discretionary licensing policy, PPL would not require the shop to obtain a licence for this. Similarly, PPL would not seek to license a worker playing recorded music when alone in a company car or delivery vehicle.

We would encourage businesses to contact PPL so that we can advise further on what (if any) PPL licensing requirements may be applicable to their specific circumstances. PPL may vary its discretionary licensing policies from time to time but we do not have any current plans in this regard and we would give reasonable notice to our customers before doing so. PPL has a separate discretionary licensing policy in respect of home offices.

I phoned them and explained what had happened, quoted the fact above and they have now cancelled the invoice and said that I will not be contacted again, perhaps a random inspection?

HTH

Martin.

Re: Performing Rights Society Again # Sole trader

Posted by John Ritchie on May 5, 2012, 10:55 pm, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again # Sole trader"
John Ritchie

I told these con artists they were illegal calling me without my authorization as i was signed up to the telephone preferential service , they haven't called me since lol

Re: Performing Rights Society Again # Sole trader

Posted by MARK DUHIGG on June 9, 2012, 7:01 am, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again # Sole trader"
Mark Duhigg

I got a invoice from PPL this morning,after phone call.
Legally where do I stand do I have to pay it if we want radio on????
Does anyone pay ???
In leymans terms please....
Cheers
Mark

Re: Performing Rights Society Again # Sole trader

Posted by john white on June 11, 2012, 3:32 pm, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again # Sole trader"
Tony White

Hi mark.
I Paid up in the end, was not very happy to do so, wrote a letter of complaint about how I felt it was intrapment, they phoned and asked me what stations I listened to, thinking it was some sort of survey,(was off guard)I answered their question, then they told me who they were,and hadn't the P.R.S warned me that they would call!!
Anyway following week got an invoice from P.P.l,
tried all ways of not paying, even spoke to trading standards,no joy.
I tried working for a week with no radio, couldn't stand it, I like a bit of music, so paid up.

John

Re: Performing Rights Society Again #

Posted by Keith Simpson on June 16, 2012, 11:19 am, in reply to "Performing Rights Society Again #"

Not had a call since January, I know a couple of garages that have had invoices and have ignored them. More than 6 months ago now and heard nothing. For what it's worth I would do the same.

Keith

Re: Performing Rights Society Again #

Posted by andy burt on August 31, 2012, 9:37 pm, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again #"
Andrew Burt

I had the pleasure of discussing at length with the nice man on the phone, he claimed i would be committing an offence if i didnt pay him any money for the license but when i asked if it was a civil or a criminal offence he could not answer, even when i tied to make it quite clear that i might be willing to pay if he could tell me who was going to inforce it he still seemed to have no idea and just kept saying i needed it! "how can you tell me what i need", i kept asking, I think once we had established that i wasnt going to prison for not having it, that it wasnt worth anyone taking civil action over such a small amount he got the idea and terminated the call for me!

Re: Performing Rights Society Again # Sole trader

Posted by david cogan on February 8, 2013, 3:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Performing Rights Society Again # Sole trader"
David Cogan

hi all,had phone call today from the clowns from PPL we told them we had no radio,the guy went on to say if a customer brings in their car and we dont turn off their radio we are responsible and therefore we need a license and they are sending me a bill

i hit them with the eu ruling (see previous post)apparently we are not part of the 27 eu member states and the UK have different rules

Dave Cogan

« Back to index

[ Automotive Discussion ]