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Landrover Freelander 1.8 K 2002 - Non start after head gasket replacement - Fixed #

Posted by Shane Gray on March 14, 2014, 8:28 pm

Year of Manufacture *: 2002
Engine Size and Code *: 1.8 k series

Help!
We have got this landrover in which had the head gasket gone, we removed and sent away for pressure test and head skim. On getting the head back we lapped in valves and fitted new stem oil seals. Fitted back to block with upgraded head gasket, we marked the cam pulley,s so we couldn't get them wrong, any way it won't start we have checked and double checked cam timing.
I carried out an compression test and there is no compression at all on cylinder 2 and 3. We removed head again and checked valves and have checked pistons all good.
Any help please I'm stuck?
Can the inlet and exhaust cams be swapped around or are they the same ?
Shane

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2014, 8:52 pm, in reply to "Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Aidan Birley

Shane

Cam / valve opening specs are rarely quoted nowadays but the basics remain the same as you where taught (or should have been) at college !

TDC firing cylinder 1 cyl 4 valves rocking, Cyl 2 TDC cyl 3 rocking ETC.

Whip the cam cover off and have a look, any error to result in total loss of compression should be visible without DTI and protractor.

a cylinder leakage test may also be preferable to compression test.

lastly where he Lifters drained ? these can cause problem on this engine.

Cheers Aidan

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by Mark Carter <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1428' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 14, 2014, 9:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Mark Carter

Guessing, I would suggest that either the cams are back to front or the cam pulleys are on the wrong way. remember that the cam wheels are the same but they can be fitted incorrectly

Mark

Modern cars, Its all wizardry and witchcraft

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by Shane gray <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 15, 2014, 8:25 am, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Shane Gray

Morning,
Mark I marked the pulleys and there dowel location. It must be the cams which are wrong way round, but they do look identical!
Aidan I will put it back together and go through valve timing to see if anything obvious.
Let you no later on.
Shane

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by aidan birley <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 15, 2014, 8:49 am, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Aidan Birley

Shane

Just a thought, I dont think the cam timing marks relate to TDC on this engine.

Best to whip a plug out and mark TDC before trying to check cam timing

Aidan

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by Shane gray <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 15, 2014, 9:55 am, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Shane Gray

Aiden,
When crank pulley is on timing mark all 4 pistons are about half way up cylinder.

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by AIDAN <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2879' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 15, 2014, 1:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Aidan Birley

Shane

I thought that was the case but not 100% from memory and did not want the marks to mislead you.

cheers Aidan

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 15, 2014, 2:39 pm, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Lee Mackintosh

Doesn't one of the cams have the extra lobe for the cmp sensor or do they both have it.

also I thought the pulleys had markings on the dowell location
IN & EX so you fit them onto the dowell as appropriate.

IIRC, all pistons are of equal height (half way up) and set to the safe mark on crank pulley when doing timing belts etc.

I have in the past though had to remove the plugs and spin over the engine to increase oil pressureto operate the valve lifters. Also a tow start has been done as well.

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by Shane gray <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 15, 2014, 8:08 pm, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Shane Gray

Hi again,
Put everything back together and made sure marks on pulley and dowels were correct and still no start. On my own today so on Monday think it will be a tow down the road fingers crossed!
Shane

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by Pete Mutlow <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1569' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 15, 2014, 9:24 pm, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Peter Mutlow

Hi Shane,

Have you done a compression test after the latest rebuild? Have you also tried a "sniff" with Easy Start? I find that can usually start a dead horse. If that don't work, then I think you are being optimistic on a tow start.

Best of luck.

Regards

Pete M

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 15, 2014, 11:26 pm, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"

Shane

"TDC firing cylinder 1 cyl 4 valves rocking, Cyl 2 TDC cyl 3 rocking ETC."
Did you do the test ? and did you do a cylinder leakage test ?
You should have done this before taking it apart again and costing time and another head-gasket etc.

Kev.

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 16, 2014, 1:43 am, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Lee Mackintosh

Surely its unlikely to have compression on cylinder s 1&4 if valve timing is wrong . If valve timing is out then I would expext it to affect all cylinders.

My guess is its a hydraulic lifter issue or valves in the low compression cylinders.

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by Kevin Apps <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2589' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 16, 2014, 11:27 am, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Kevin Apps

Hi Lee

"Surely its unlikely to have compression on cylinder s 1&4 if valve timing is wrong"

"I carried out an compression test and there is no compression at all on cylinder 2 and 3."

The trouble is shane has not posted the comp,s for 1&4 only none at all on 2&3.

If 1&4 were OK i would expect it to run or at least try too on 1 and 4.

Kev.

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by Lee Mackintosh <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1348' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 16, 2014, 12:34 pm, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Lee Mackintosh

I just took it as 1&4 must be ok as Shane would've stated otherwise in my opinion.

I have done both methods of draining tappets or leaving rhem in oil both of which didn't make any difference. I just tend to leave them in a mcdonalds type cup numbered 1-16 now.

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by shane gray <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3442' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 16, 2014, 7:06 pm, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Shane Gray

I didn't post any results because I had already removed head again as I expected to see valve leakage. However I rechecked all valves and I sprayed wd40 into ports and none were leaking. Also visually checked all pistons and sprayed wd40 on top also.
I no timing is smack on, I have a spark and I can smell fuel, so a tow and its got to go!
shane

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by john Ritchie <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT2638' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 17, 2014, 9:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
John Ritchie

Bit of a wild one here but how much did they skim off the head? ,have heard of heads getting skimmed too much the grounding out on the steel dowels

Just a thought

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by JASON BROWN <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=ukat3059' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 18, 2014, 6:35 pm, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Jason Brown

it the lifters in this model need to tow it iv done these before tow them and let it run it will run like a pig for awhile

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement

Posted by Les smith <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1209' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 18, 2014, 9:23 pm, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"

If you were to remove cyl head with camshafts in place you would have to turn crankshaft one complete turn from auto data instructions. This would make exhaust cam sensor lobe out the way to remove head bolt under lobe. This being the case, both cam wheels writing upside down. I think the cam pegs should be exhaust at 2o clock and inlet at 8 o clock. I have this written down at work and will confirm later.
Les

Fixed #

Posted by Shane Gray on March 19, 2014, 8:14 am, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket replacement"
Edited by board administrator March 19, 2014, 3:01 pm

Morning,
Gave it a tow start and it started but was missing. Left it run for a while and she cleared. Strange how there was no compression, the lifters shouldn't have held valve open!
Thanks for all advice and glad to see this one go.
Shane

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket / fixed

Posted by Les <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT1209' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 19, 2014, 8:32 am, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket / fixed"
Leslie Smith

Glad it started. Don't think valves are held open. Do not think they open enough. Here to be corrected.
Les

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket / fixed

Posted by Peter Warman <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=Peter+Warman' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 19, 2014, 8:41 am, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket / fixed"

Back in the 80's we looked after a fleet of Rover 820's 2.0 16v, these kept burning valves out at around 20,000 miles so always pulling heads off. Once rebuilt they were always a pig to start some just fired but took a few minutes to fire on all 4

Most of them ended up being towed to start, they would catch and then run like an old MF tractor for a while then clear and run perfect......so nothing unusual in what you did (tow to start)

As Les points out, the lifters did not open the valves enough, towing builds up the oil pressure

Peter

Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket / fixed

Posted by Bryan Smith <iframe src='https://members5.boardhost.com/ukautotalk4/info/user=UKAT5330' width='330' height='300' border=0 style='border:none;'> on March 20, 2014, 8:51 pm, in reply to "Re: Landrover freelander - non start after head gasket / fixed"
Bryan Smith

I'm not sure I agree with the lifters NOT opening the valves. I always compress hyd lifters when removed from the head (no oil left inside) which causes a rattle for a while but they always start. When you remove a lifter it can draw in quite a lot of air which is enough to hold the valve open. To prove this point, when this happens turn the engine over by hand for about 20-30 mins and it will fire up. This is because excess oil (and air) have been ejected. I have only just read this thread but Aiden asked in his first post if the lifters were drained.
Regards,
Bryan.
PS. One of these I did left me scratching my head as I used the key on the crank sprocket (for the pulley) as a timing mark after getting confused with a Vauxhall. I didn't try to start it as the valves fouled the head when turning over by hand but realised my error after removing/refitting the cams and sprockets several times

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